Please help me help dd (17) with friendships, I am unintentionally making things worse…

[Watermelon234]

I am at my wits end with worry about her. I was trying to help, but in worry and frustration have ended up telling her that I think her friend is toxic and I don’t think that has helped.

She is a very social person, loves going out and meeting friends. When she is doing this she is happy, bubbly and confident.

The problem is she doesn’t have a close/reliable group of friends to do this with, so socialising is very sporadic and has been worse over he past few months. Because of this her mood changes beyond recognition and she becomes very low and mopey.

She only gets to go out or meet friends if she is invited, doesn’t have a close friend to call on, even to hang out with in houses. She has tried to instigate meet ups but people are generally busy with others so decline. She doesn’t like to ask if she can join in.

This has been an ongoing problem over the years. She makes friends easily, has numerous acquaintances, but everyone of them seem to have closer friends that they do things with. She’s never really had that and I don’t know how to help her. It was fine when she was younger because we met up in groups, instigated by us parents, and the kids joined in but friendships have evolved without my dd.

The toxic friend is a girl my dd sees at college and they share a hobby. My dd sees her as a close friend. Unfortunately, it has become apparent to me that this friend is actually turning other friends against my dd. I have been a bit suspicious of this for a while, so have been watching from the sidelines while they do their hobby, as I didn’t get a good vibe from her at all. The friend has been very active socially over Christmas, and has invited some of my dd’s other friends from a different friend group out with her friend group, but my dd was not included. My dd has gone very quiet, withdrawn and subdued since she heard this. I am fuming, as she doesn’t need this at all at the moment with A levels looming. In my frustration and anger at my dd making excuses for her friend and accepting it as all part of life, I ranted that her friend was toxic.

Today I feel guilty about being angry and not being supportive, but I am so worried she will end up back where she was a few years ago, in a low place with no social options at all. The worry is eating me up. The problem is , because she is mopey, that is not exactly enticing to others, and the invites dry up. The past couple of years have been great in comparison, so I really need to get this right.

please help with any advice.

Absolutely adds up.

WTAF?

I have a woman who is around a few of my friendship groups. She is friendly, kind and bice, but she is not a friend of mine. Nothing wrong with her, I just do not have much in common with her. Only one member of her group ever sees her outside these friendship groups and she is the only one I would say is a friend.
I say this as it sounds as if these teenagers are more friendly acquaintances than real friends. It would be extremely unusual for teenagers never to have facetime walks, go a walk, play an online game with a friend. If your DD is not even having these type of interactions with one or two of this friendship group, then it suggests she sees them in a very different way to how they see her.

Hi op..is it possible your daughter is neurodiverse? You seem to describe an issue that has always been there for her of not quite understanding social rules and holding back because of this understanding (ie. Not saying oh can I join when there is a group activity)

I think if social issues have been a longstanding problem it may be she lacks some of the nuanced understanding of how to enter groups and how to cement friendships

I sympathisr as my daughter is autistic and struggles with friends

Teach your DD to create her own happiness instead of waiting on others to invite and include her. This is something you can help with.

Get her to write a list of things she would like to do e.g. go to a concert, get her nails done, join a Zumba class, read a book, watch a series, learn to cook etc and you can help facilitate these things either as a family or ‘mother/daughter time’. Then she will have something interesting to talk about and can invite her friends join in.

You can also get her to invest in family relationships if friendships are currently difficult. E.g. spend an afternoon every week with Granny, go somewhere or do an activity with a sibling, invite a cousin for a sleepover etc.

@Watermelon234 YANBU I completely understand and A levels are a tough 2 years for them. We have always made our DD aware of 'frienemies'. Teenage girl's friendships are tricky enough without everything else.

I do think there is a lot of jealousy at that age and their world is still pretty small as they are in the comfort of home and school still.
We tell our DD to remember that her world is just about to get a whole lot bigger as she enters university or the workforce and that these girls won't be in her circle in a couple of years.

The most important thing is to keep her focus going and her confidence up.

Well done on being attuned and thinking of your DD's mental health

Oh I see. That happened to my daughter too, we ended up inviting some of those girls to our house for a sleep over and excluding her, a few times. When she asked why she was excluded, my daughter said because you've been doing it to me. It worked, she stopped excluding her from everything, just occasionally now. Now they're all okayish and a group again. Girls can be really horrible.

Excellent post. I too fell into the same trap as @Watermelon234 and I had to learn the same as @YourDiscoNeedsYou there is a fine line between support and control sometimes. I know personally I found myself on the wrong side of it as I tried to navigate this stuff with my own child. Then I realised it was better to focus on me having a great relationship with her and let her figure out the rest herself. It turns out she was much better than me at it anyway :-).

@adriftabroad one teenage girl can easily turn others against someone, it's a classic bully / top dog move. Either everyone excludes someone or they take the risk that it might be them that is excluded or picked on next time.

I see this ALL THE TIME.

@SoTiredNeedHoliday

I know:it is horrific. Literally every girl is scared of this one girl. It is 100% a real thing.

We used to call it "being wendied" I think!
Happens a bit on MN TBH!

We have had similar issues throughout secondary school with DD.

In hindsight the reason for different friendship groups but no close friends was that she never found her "tribe".

She is at uni now and has hit it off straight away with a group of girls. They are as far as I can tell are very similar in personality to her. Some are from her course and some are from the flat below (in halls)...

But it does not sound like that what is happening.

At 17, she is on the cusp of adulthood and new friendships, proper friendships await. I don't think many people make lifelong friends at school, it's nearly always university and work where true friendships are formed. Teenage girls are notoriously spiteful towards each other. She'll find her tribe soon enough. Try not to stress about it.

I’m sorry your daughter is experiencing this. I think some posters are being a bit mean being very off hand with you- it’s bound to be a worry! My daughter is a similar age snd we have navigated similar ups and downs. Firstly, this is very temporary. I’m assuming your daughter in is the last year of school/ college- so six months left. What’s next? Uni? Job? Apprenticeship? Start looking forward. That will help put all of this in a bit more perspective. Your daughter won’t remember these people’s surnames in a few years. Secondly- your daughter needs to be proactive about making/ building friendships. This will help her next stage in life too. Don’t wait to be invited. Invite others! Arrange occasions to socialise. Think of other ways uk d tend your friendship group- join new groups/ take up new hobbies. Be brave! Your daughter is lovely. This is a temporary blip. Try to give off “doesn’t matter” vibes to her so she isn’t catastrophising and building this into a bigger issue that it needs to be. Realistically the new few months will be very busy with exams etc anyway. Sending you both very best wishes xx

Yes I have often wondered why this is. The problem is I think I am/was similar so it’s difficult to understand why or to offer advice. I also have numerous acquaintances but much fewer close friends and this has always been the case.

She’s not at all confrontational or bitchy. I’ve never heard her say a bad word about anyone ever. She’s generally a very positive and lively person. She rarely complains about anything.

It could be that she doesn’t show vulnerability? Or ever show that she’s upset? Or that she has learnt her communication style from me? Perhaps she’s always a bit positive and that’s too much? (I always thought I would lose friends if I complained too much or moaned and she’s similar to me).

She is probably a bit quirky. Adults love her. Add/asd is a possibility but never been broached.

For fuck's sake don't be so fucking ridiculous.

OP I get it. And believe me for every ten struggling teens who eventually flourish and find 'their tribe' and all that shit there is one who ends up with serious difficulties. It doesn't always work out naturally and I don't blame you for wanting to help her.

I think you’re right about convenience. I have had lots of friendships which worked well at certain times of my life when we had things in common and petered out or lessened later on.

I think the main issue here is not having anyone local to call on or hang out with or anyone to meet for a drink or go to the cinema with etc.

Yes you are right, you have described exactly my thought process since yesterday and why I felt I haven’t helped things despite wanting to be supportive.

Yes this is a possibility, without going into too much detail, I did not have a good experience in the few months leading up to my a levels so am probably subconsciously a bit over sensitive .

Yes, I do have a lot of friends, a couple who are fairly close but quite a few long standing ones and lots of acquaintances. I do struggle a bit with developing really close bonds with people though.

How do they learn to develop close friendships though, it seems quite a hard skill for some people and doesn’t come naturally.

Hmm you sound like a nice person

Yes you’re right, so is there a way to develop them? It seems not everyone has these skills and some may need a bit of help. Maybe I do too!

@Watermelon234 I used to struggle with this as well, my DP taught me. I wondered if you had the same issue, as we do learn friendship skills from our parents without even realising.
It might help your DD to post on an internet forum anonymously about friendship skills to create deeper bonds.
It is not too late to learn these skills for either of you, but she may benefit from some advice.

So my tips would be when inviting people do not make it a big thing at first. Just start with do you want to face time, or play an online game, go for a coffee after a lecture, something low key. You have to start small and make it one person or two at first.

You have to show your personality. You keep describing your DD as friendly, nice, never a bad word to say about anyone. But this is not enough to be a close friend. Is she fun? Witty? Interesting?

Don't assign roles like toxic or manipulative to someone without very very good evidence. These are all teenagers trying to find their way and having too high expectations is a highway to not being able to make friends. Your DD is not perfect and neither are these other teenagers.

Maybe, there is definitely a struggle with social rules I think which is becoming more apparent with age. I’ve never really thought much about it because she’s generally great with general communication, she has a job she enjoys in a cafe and enjoys the interactions. School hasn’t been a problem, except for a tendency to put off revision or do the minimum to get by. But she still gets good grades. It’s just socially where something feels a bit off.

I think you’re right about learning friendship skills, I wish there was an easy way to do it.

She is as I describe her. I think, to be honest, she has learnt to be a bit vanilla. She may have learnt it from me or may have worked it out for herself. Non confrontational and a bit safe/ not fully giving opinions, a bit on the fence.

I think if you have a bit of previous trauma around friendships, you possibly don’t want to put people off by having strong opinions, being controversial etc so stay safe, which could possibly seem a bit unusual?