Struggling to make ends meet as a junior doctor. AIBU?

[HK3444]

Struggling to make ends meet. Rent has gone up, food bills are going up and struggling to support my kids.

I’m someone worked really hard through medical school, it felt like endless exams and accumulated student debt with the hope that I’d be able to support my family comfortably at the end of the degree and but also feel job satisfaction bettering the health of others.

Not sure what this was all for… can’t believe I’m in this situation as a doctor

No one should be struggling to survive. However my DP has a very physical job and will soon not be able to work at all if he doesn't have the operation he's waiting for. Btw no sign of a pay rise for this year yet and last year was 3% for him.

I only realised recently that junior doctors are actually not junior at all. In fact they are doctors who have been working in the field for sometimes up to 10 years. Out of the £40k a year they earn, they have to pay exam fees at £1k a time, travel to exams often in other cities, professional fees and indemnity. These are all compulsory and not exempt from tax. I find it incredibly difficult to understand why society thinks it's ok on the basis that 'one day' doctors may earn a high salary. That doesn't help them now. It doesn't compensate for the long hours, the pressure, the lack of resources and so much more. They can't put a hold on their bills until they are 15years PQE. A doctor is a highly skilled, highly pressured job. Why are we ok with paying them so little in real terms? 🤯 junior doctors are not fresher students with no responsibilities. They're mostly 28-40 years old with bills and commitments.

£43932, according to the pay circular.

I didn't say physician associate, I said specialist band 7 ahp.

By the time they're 40 they've moved up the pay scale to around 70k

As the mum of a medical doctor in the US I think you are paid appallingly. And for those who say, "Oh, you'll make more in a few years time," I say you have no idea what these young people go through to become doctors, and they should be paid accordingly from the beginning.

My daughter did 4 years for her B.S. in Biochemistry with a 3.9 grade point average. 4.0 is perfect. Then she did 4 years in medical school.She graduated with her medical doctor degree and started residency, which is the equivalent to junior doctor. Her specialty is Intensive Care, taking care of the sickest patients in hospital. She has been a resident for 4 years. She will finish in June and she just accepted her first job offer starting in July at a base salary of 290,000 US dollars. That doesn't include a signing bonus, moving expenses, large contributions toward her pension scheme, several weeks PTO, excellent life, health, and disability insurance, etc. She's worth every penny. I know MN likes to slag off the American medical system, but you get what you pay for and the NHS scares me to death. If you want a world-class medical system with world-class doctors you have to pay for it.

And in my post, I said specifically band 7 physician associates. Try learning to read

So £200~ more per year than the bottom spine point for band 7 on AfC. Grim

Based on seniority, not specialty. Same as in nursing/AfC.

Ah, and increasing annually to around 68k by st8 without moving to consultant level? So a junior doctor starting uni at 18, fy1 at 24, would only be expected to earn under 40k for 2 years? Then by 30 be on 50-60k and by 38 could be a consultant on 98k?

You know a band 7 role will have required high entry grades for university, a 3-4 year degree, post grad training of at least a year in a favourable speciality right? It's 6 years training to get to the level to apply for the roles and most will start on band 6 so have 5/10 years hands on experience by band 7? In a clinical role. Why is it grim that a 23 yr old fresh out of university would earn less?

Consultant is £93k not £98k but yes that’s right otherwise.

MPs are so obviously better people than the peasants that they deign to speak to every 5 years.
My view is that they should demonstrate that in their financial Ts&Cs. For example, if some of the electorate won't get a state pension 'til 68, MPs retiring now shouldn't be able to draw theirs until the same age.
Likewise, this shocking table shows that an MP's salary that combined elements of the minimum wage, state pension and starting salaries for doctors, nurses, teachers and civil servants would keep them in touch with the policies they vote for.
Subsidies for food and drink and wholly and necessary expenses should also be similar to those provided elsewhere in the public sector.
Unlikely to happen anytime soon, unless we vote in folks who haven't already failed in the job.

There’s something seriously wrong in our country, when you look at pay. You earn thousands of pounds for kicking a ball about and a pittance for the really important jobs. Doctors, nurses, other medical occupations and teachers should be very well paid.

Sunak is a rich joke.

And she'll be expected to work 80 hours a week with max 3 months mat leave, possibly not paid and 2 weeks of paid leave. There's a very different culture in medicine in USA AND IN MANY WAYS NOT FOR GHE BETTER

It's interesting though because majority of MPs (and my God I am not defneytheir salaries and I feel dirty even giving thsi side but devil's advocate here) are not fresh from uni at 23, they've generally had some kind of career before and are say 30-40 plus and at that stage in a doctors career they'd expect to be on 80-130k roughly.

As per usual you are totally wrong, and I do wish you’d stop responding to me because I don’t have the patience for your utter stupidity to be honest.
AHP degrees do not have high entry requirements, especially not compared to medicine degrees. AHPs also start on band 5, not band 6. You do not need 5-10 years of experience to reach band 7. And age is not relevant at all so o don’t know why you keep banging on about it - AfC banding and doctor salaries don’t take age into account at all. The level of responsibility, skill, and knowledge required is simply not the same for AHPs compared to doctors, even junior ones. No doctor should earn less than a physician associate with only 2 years of medical education, or an ANP with 5 years.

I'm just going by Scottish numbers which will be different

Either way 93k by 38 with a decent gradual progression and pretty guaranteed work doesn't seem like 'not able to make ends meet' in any real sense does it?

In the current cost fo living crisis and the lifestyles people lead?

I am pro strike, I am pro better pay and conditions, I still think it's utter nonsense to have this level of earning power and claim ends don't meet

I'm an NHS ahp who required 3As at a level 20 years ago from a choice of 3 sciences or 2 sciences and maths to enter my course which was comparable with medicine at the time in many of the cities close to where I trained. Started in NHS on a band 6 briefly, progressed to a band 7 now band 8a.

I have friends with PHDs who work in clinical roles, whose level of education required longer than standard medical training start in band 7, now band 8a-c

So no. You're wrong.

The reason I mention age is because a previous poster stated ages 25-35 someone should expect to earn enough to live comfortabky as a doctor, I'm merely saying they do, as much as any other professional with an increasing salary scale.

I don’t think anyone has ever claimed consultants can’t make ends meet, have they? And we aren’t on strike.

OP, who has disappeared in a puff of smoke, hopefully manning a barricade somewhere rather than filing her copy for the daily mail, said she couldn’t pay the bills as a junior doctor with children. If she is part time, or a single mother, or has two children in nursery, there is every chance that is true. I know our juniors do, genuinely, struggle to afford rent in London on their salaries, even in house shares, and even living in cheap areas. Our nurses and AHPs do too. It isn’t a race to the bottom.

You’re going by requirements from 20 years ago. I’m stating what the facts are now. Staff nurses, paramedics, midwives, occ therapist - all start on band 5. All need only Cs or Bs to get into uni.

That's terrible!! I get around 12.50 pound an hour equivalent in a receptionist's job - and the same when I did the cleaning - no uni, no training. Shocking wages.

The only reason I'm arguing around the op at all is because I don't think the op is a junior doctor.

Even junior doctors I know who have children while training or moved from other professional and took pay cuts wouldn't complain they can't make ends meet.

The junior doctors I know are absolutely lovely, they work hard, they appreciate the incremental increase in salary, they'll moan like anyone at the start of their career when it's hard and pay is lower but they are not unable to make ends meet.

They're underpaid for their role, they're taken advantage of, they're stressed and exhausted but they're not on the poverty line and fully qualified full time GPs do not earn little enough to claim universal credit.

I think doctors should be paid more, I think they do amazing jobs, the consultants in our department who are more recently qualified are also not the pompous aging men of 20 yrs ago, they are down to earth, well qualified, brilliant individuals who will take time to train others and embrace working as a team.

I just don't believe the op is actually a struggling junior doctor I think ist an inflammatory thread and actually I think it does harm to the cause of the strikes. It's here to stoke up ahti doctor feeling. And if it's not and someone has been feeling sorry for themselves they need to look at the wider context of salaries, cost of living, genuine hardship in society and get a bit of a reality check on what it means to not make ends meet.

This poster seems to think that because you have potential to earn more in the future you couldn’t possibly be struggling in the here and now. As if you somehow have all this money you might or might not earn in 5-10 years in your pocket right now. It’s a completely stupid argument.