Struggling to make ends meet as a junior doctor. AIBU?

[HK3444]

Struggling to make ends meet. Rent has gone up, food bills are going up and struggling to support my kids.

I’m someone worked really hard through medical school, it felt like endless exams and accumulated student debt with the hope that I’d be able to support my family comfortably at the end of the degree and but also feel job satisfaction bettering the health of others.

Not sure what this was all for… can’t believe I’m in this situation as a doctor

And yes doctor’s salaries increase generously over time but in the years 28 - 35 when most people need the money to buy a house and support their young family if they’re not earning enough to do this comfortably after 6 years of training that hardly seems fair.

Are you a junior doctor once you start training a specialty? Don't you move to a different lay scale? So by 38 you're talking 100k plus salary?

By age 35 they'd be on 60/70k usually. That doesn't seem so bad

You are a junior doctor once you start training in a specialty. You are a consultant once you finish.

Just seen this and it makes my blood boil.

Just How Much Has MPs' Pay Changed Since 2008 Compared To Junior Doctors? (yahoo.com)

This jumped out at me;

2008: MPs – £61,820, first year junior doctors – £28,274
2009: MPs – £64,766, first year junior doctors – £28,274
2010: MPs – £65,738, first year junior doctors – £28,274
2011: MPs – £65,738, first year junior doctors – £28,274
2012: MPs – £65,738, first year junior doctors – £28,274
2013: MPs – £66,396, first year junior doctors – £28,274
2014: MPs – £67,060, first year junior doctors – £28,274
2015: MPs – £74,000, first year junior doctors – £28,274
2016: MPs – £74,962, first year junior doctors – £32,398
2017: MPs – £76,011, first year junior doctors – £32,398
2018: MPs – £77,379, first year junior doctors – £32,398
2019: MPs – £79,468, first year junior doctors – £32,398
2020: MPs – £81,932, first year junior doctors – £32,398
2021: MPs – £81,932, first year junior doctors – £32,398
2022: MPs – £84,144, first year junior doctors – £32,398
2023: MPs – £86,584, first year junior doctors – £32,398

Well as someone who's relative has had an operation they need cancelled for a 2 nd time due to strikes and that person will have no sickness pay weeks left soon which will leave their family totally fucked financially sorry but I don't support the strikes at all .

A newly qualified junior doctor not on a training pathway is in a different position pay scale wise that st1, st2 etc though right? You're not suggesting you don't earn over 32k after 7 years of specialty training?

You are underpaid, over worked and undervalued as someone who is very very valuable to the society and not enough of trained people like you around.

Hope you get a pay rise.

This needs to be pinned at the top of this thread.

No, of course not. There are different points on the payscale. The question was what age is a junior doctor, not what age is an FY1 doctor at the lowest point in the payscale.

I’m in the U.S. and paying a fortune for medical care. No joke, I paid $1500/month for the premium and with two autistic children, all 3 with ADHD, I spend a further $25k a year on co-pays. That’s more than a junior doctor is paid. £33k.

Can you look at working in Pharma? Better pay and hours.

I do feel for you as people automatically assume doctor = rich.

It isn't like that for a few years despite all the years training.

Just make sure you have all the financial help available to you and your situation should improve in the near future. How much does dad help?

So newly qualified doctor starts on 32k, without any further training they'll have NHS incremental parties right? Then they find a training position which will offer a salary banding? What would you expect to start on for one of the lucrative ones, say neurology training post, expected starting salary?

So looking at NHS Scotland recruitment website specialty doctors and training posts seem to be from 58k to 90k as salary bandings. That sounds about right? At what age would you expect to ake up that post?

Definitely not a bad salary at 35 but don’t you think people should be paid decently for the work they put in in the present.

Genuine question - how many years does it take to get to junior doctor wage and how long do you stay on it?

Looking at the roles available you'd start on 32k while on rotations and choosing a specialty, junior doctors on thai level are minimally useful on a ward and there mainly to train

That changes over time by I'd say our ST1s are mid to late 20s and our consultants early to mid 30s. 3 of our young consultants just bought large detached houses and have young children. This is Scotland though where housing is a different matter to say London but that applies regardless of career

An FY1 post is a training post. You then automatically move to an FY2 post, which is the second year of foundation training.

You then apply for ST1 training in the specialty you want to work in - if you are successful, you move onto the ST payscale, which is the same regardless of specialties - there are no “lucrative” specialties in the NHS, we are all paid the same. Our pay is set centrally, by government. You then move up the ST payscale, assuming you are passing exams/assessments.

Some specialties run straight through to ST7 and certificate of completion of training. Some (medicine and surgery) have you re-apply for higher training at ST3 or ST4. Again, pay is the same regardless of whether you are an orthopaedic surgeon, a psychiatrist, or a cardiologist.

When you finish training, you move onto the consultant payscale. Again, a consultant neurologist is paid the same as a consultant geriatrician, or urologist, or any other consultant. Regardless of where you work. Payscales are all on the Department of Health website.

IMO no qualified doctor, including those on their FY, should earn less than a band 7 physician associate or a band 8a ANP. So should be at least a 50k starting salary. Age is totally irrelevant.

What does an st1 earn and typical age? So they've done their fy training and chosen a specialty and are what, 26? Salary around 55-70k?

@LorlieS ouch! I teach in a large comprehensive. My A’levels are top grades (As as no A*s then) and I have a degree from one of the top universities in the country! Your post is perpetuating the myth that teachers would choose other careers if they were brighter or had better A’levels. 😔 Nothing wrong with your son not wanting to be a teacher but please don’t correlate this with the fact he is predicted high grades.

Really? Because a qualified band 7 ahp is being expected to work to a higher level than most junior doctors, certainly that FYs in most specialities and probably meets in the middle around ST3 in many areas.

Oh Scotland has a different payscale - negotiated with the Scottish government. I know they got more over summer, which is why they aren’t striking in Scotland.

It will be similar ages at each stage of training, but I couldn’t be confident on the bandings. NHS England doesn’t have bandings any more, got rid of them around 2016.

Hang in there.
I hope your pay and working conditions improve.

Doctors are a vital part of our health system and should be able to train and repay student loans and afford a modest, reasonable lifestyle for their family.
They take on huge burdens of life and death. We need them to stay afloat financially and mentally. The same with many other vital workers - who all pay tax.

We have too many social committments to people who are not productive enough. All people should pull their weight.

A physician associate is not working at a higher level than most junior doctors.

I have always seen variation in consultant salaries offered