By calling a surgeon sir, or should I call him doctor?

[teaandcake32]

I am aware there is etiquette around addressing Dr's and surgeons.

Should you call a surgeon Mr ..........., what if you don't know his surname.

Would Sir be an insult? Would Dr be an insult?

Please help me find the correct terminology, wise women of Mumsnet.

Are you a patient or a colleague?

I've found many senior surgeon to be callled "Prof" by their juniors.

Nauseating.

I don't live in the UK, but it's perfectly normal here to call solicitors, vicars, teachers, doctors, etc. by their first name. Generally I call people the name they introduce themselves as, which is usually their first name.

This is not true. Medical Dr’s who are consultants are referred to as Dr surname. surgeon’s who are consultants are Mr/Mrs/miss surname.

Sorry, you're incorrect.

Medical consultants use the title Dr, surgeons revert to use the title Mr/Mrs etc once they get their college membership exam (mrcs).

One is not superior or outranks the other, and Infact a medical consultant called Dr is on a more senior role than a registrar called Mr.

My orthopaedic surgeon stuck out his hand and introduced himself as ‘George’ at my first appointment, so I went with that.

Lol anything can start an argument on MN

I like your George. I'd trust him

Yes, I think that's the case for all consultants? It seems odd, but I guess it's 'tradition'.

General rule is (although with modern medicine it sometimes gets more complicated than this) if they're mainly cutting you open to treat you they're a Mr/Mrs/Ms. If they're giving you tablets to treat you they're a Dr. Nothing to do with 'rank'. Just to confuse matters further many consultants in teaching or very research active hospitals, also hold contracts at Universities and therefore it's becoming common for them to be Profs. I also know a couple of knighted medics and they're Prof Sirs.

No matter their title though, in reality a lot of them just use their first name.

IABU to ask them how they'd prefer to be addressed?!

They have egos the size of a planet already without calling them sir.

As a nurse who’s worked with loads of surgeons over the years please don’t call them Sir, they have a big enough ego! Mr / Mrs ….. and if you don’t know don’t worry just ask them

Don't be silly, all surgical staff (note, including the nurses and other non medical professionals who play a vital role) are well trained and experienced in what the different roles and skills of all the people involved in an operation are. And there are briefings at the start where people introduce themselves (first names and job titles/roles only usually) if anyone stands in need of a reminder. And if despite all this someone manages to forget who the consultant surgeon in the room is a pretty good clue would be to look for the person holding the scalpel rather than trying to remember who's called Mr! Insisting on the regular and correct use of titles in a modern world where they're increasingly archaic is at best a distraction and at worst reinforces unhelpful power dynamics that emphasise to more 'junior' and nursing staff that the consultant is god (since the surgeon and maybe the anaesthetist at a push would be the only ones in the room being addressed by title, nurses are very rarely called 'sister' or 'nurse' these days, first names all the way) and can never / must never be challenged in any way. Which isn't very safe or indeed pleasant as a working environment. And trust me, most surgeons don't need the ego boost of being called 'Mr' by deferential nurses to be reminded they are the one in charge, most are quite sufficiently aware of that too

That being said, most clinical folks I know probably would call any colleague by their title if they particularly wanted to be addressed as that, it would just make the person seem quite old fashioned in most settings other than maybe giving a presentation or an academic context maybe?

Unfair generalisation. The ones I’ve been treated by have all been lovely and humble.

The profession is changing rapidly though - many more women coming through (only 1 in 6 at consultant level at the moment, but 1 in 3 at registrar level and an even higher proportion at more junior levels).

He really is very nice!

Yes George sounds fab!
Crushed23 they can all be lovely with patients but v different with staff, believe me !

@teaandcake32 a surgeon is usually Mr

Tbh I also go first name.

Saves me having to dick about with the patients preferred pronouns, which can be even more unpredictable.

Breast surgeon in Northumbria?

In what context? Is he doing your surgery or do you work with him? If you don't know his name yet it's fine to call him Sir, or ask him what he'd like you to call him.

My dad was a surgeon, but also a GP so he liked to keep his Dr title. He likes being called Doc or just Ed, his name. All the consultants I work with are Dr and their name. Sometimes first, sometimes surname. Which ever they pick. If a doctor wants you to call them something specific they will introduce themselves to you.

Nonsense! Surgeons are consultants. Medics use Dr, surgeons use Mr because, as above, originally they weren't qualified doctirs

Does that include surgical specialist registrars? I've seen my neurosurgeon's registrar a couple of times and wasn't sure if I should refer to her as Ms or Dr.

Definitely not “Sir” - that would be really weird.

Is this your surgeon who you are meeting in a professional context, or somebody you are meeting socially? If you are wanting to get their attention and don’t know their name, “excuse me, doctor!” is fine. Better than “oi!”.

If it’s somebody you are meeting socially, just do whatever you would do for a non-surgeon. I am a doctor and get called Mrs Saschka all the time, if I’m not at work I’m not bothered either way.

No, it's a surgical registrar who has seen me for a medical condition on behalf of the consultant surgeon. I didn't know if it's only consultant surgeons who should be referred to as Mr, or if it included other surgeons at a more junior level.

Surgical is Mr, Miss, Ms.

Medical is Dr.
Prof can be either as they have trained a lot longer.

2 different type of medicine.

All goes back to medics trained and Surgeons originally came from barbers.