By calling a surgeon sir, or should I call him doctor?

[teaandcake32]

I am aware there is etiquette around addressing Dr's and surgeons.

Should you call a surgeon Mr ..........., what if you don't know his surname.

Would Sir be an insult? Would Dr be an insult?

Please help me find the correct terminology, wise women of Mumsnet.

Nowadays it's more likely you would be calling them by their first name.

Or Miss X as we have had women surgeons for a little while now

FFS not Sir, some of the egos are big enough already.

I thought the OP was asking what to call the surgeon if you don't know their surname therefore can't call them Mr??

Erm - you’re completely wrong, Dr is not lower status.

What about Father Ted, Father Dougal and Father Jack?

I was going to say, don't let a physician hear you suggest that, @DragonMama3 😁

Nooo!

Look it’s simple. Surgeons are Mr /Miss/Mrs. Physicians are Dr.

It's got nothing to do with being a Consultant or any other hierarchy. Surgeons are not more or less important than physicians. So Dh is a Gastroenterologist his title is Dr, his mate is a Colorectal surgeon, his title is Mr.

This is not correct. I work in a surgical specialty and the consultants go as either Mr Miss or Prof

I still call my dentist 'Mr' since this was the convention at the time but I seem to be the only one doing this now. It feels so strange to ask for a check-up with 'Mike'. The formality of 'Mr' feels more appropriate because I'm using it to acknowledge that his training and expertise is beyond that of 'Mike' down the pub and that he has authority when it comes to teeth. I feel the same applies to surgeons.

Sir is far too formal and I would never use this to address anybody.

Err.... No.

Mr/Miss just means they have passed their surgical exams. Yes you'd be v chuffed you had done this but anaesthetists, physicians, radiologists, oncologists all have to pass post grad exams as well.

Absolutely no-one is impressed at someone being Mr/Miss in hospital, it doesn't mean better and it doesn't mean consultant either.

I call my orthopaedic surgeon Matt and my plastic surgeon Miss [Surname] (although she abbreviates it as she has a very long surname!).

@tigerinthejungle well that’s just lovely but the NHS is hierarchical by its nature as it should be and there’s such a thing as respect among colleagues.

If you don’t believe in hierarchy then I for one hope you go nowhere near an operating theatre.

Now I’m done getting annoyed with everyone answering questions THEY DON’T KNOW THE ANSWERS TO, to address your question OP, if you do not know the surgeons name and cannot find it out, calling them doctor is fine - they ARE doctors. No surgeon I know would be affronted by this.

Nope, it's always been the physician/surgeon divide, Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms for the latter, and for those saying 'Dr' is the lower status title, that's not correct either, both are equal as consultants. Historically the Mr was actually the lower status of the two because surgeons were 'barber surgeons' and only.viewed as good for pretty minor procedures like tooth extractions or cauterisating wounds in a military context. Anything more like amputations would have been a last resort and considering the lack of anaesthetics, antiseptics, antibiotics and very poor understanding of hygiene pretty damn dangerous too. Thankfully today things are a bit different but the title difference is kept as a reminder of the brutal origins of surgical practice.

In answer to what to call a surgeon (assuming professional context) most would be perfectly happy with first name only these days but to be safe use 'Mr/Ms Surname' rather than Dr if they are a consultant (surgical trainees who haven't passed their exams yet still use Dr) - although anyone who really wants to show off their seniority or prestige may in fact be a Professor or even a Sir/Dame or Lord in a few cases! So if they're a prickly bastard and/or you want to be certain you're correct check their profile on the hospital website first (although personally I enjoy winding up prickly people by occasionally using the wrong one of their many honourifics)

Surgical consultants are Mr , Mrs , Miss Lastname
Medical consultants are Dr Lastname.
Both are consultants.
Both did a medical degree and started off known as Dr Lastname
There is no hierarchy 🙄
I think the surgeons using Mr or Mrs stems from the times of barber surgeons !

There are a lot of non-churchgoers on this thread! C of E vicars / priests are called by their first names. If it's very traditional/high church C of E it might be "Father Ed" or "Mother Edie" but otherwise just first names.

If you don’t believe in hierarchy then I for one hope you go nowhere near an operating theatre.

This is a dangerous and outdated idea. Hierarchy is proven to not be a good thing in healthcare, and is a contributor to poor outcomes. It doesn't mean the porter is going to start performing an appendectomy FFS.

Yes and then when surgery became highly qualified and respected, they wanted to keep the title 'Mr' so they weren't lumped in with lower skilled Drs

@renthead too right - it’s all about flattening the hierarchy in theatres to ensure that all colleagues are empowered to flag errors. Also it’s a team and everyone has an important part to play.

Surgeons are known as Mr or Mrs, and not typically as Dr Jones (for example). I wouldn't call him Sir, as that is usually reserved for legal address (such as a judge in a court). I wouldn't call a doctor or surgeon by their first name either, unless invited to do so, and where I was seeking their services as a patient. That is just polite. I had surgery today as a day patient, and I said 'Hello, Mr...' to my surgeon and shook his hand. He replied 'Hello, Mrs...' even though I have a Dr title on my medical records. I wasn't there in a professional capacity, I wasn't there to advise him how to treat me, and he was about to charge at me with a scalpel so I wasn't about to question what he wanted to call me in the circumstances 😁. A few shots of local anaesthetic in my mouth later, I couldn't have called him anything at all.

Are you a colleague or a patient? As a patient I referred to my consultant surgeon as Mr ….

Surgery is a pretty formal setting. The titles make clear everybody's role and responsibilities.

TIL! My fetal consultant was a Mr. But maybe he was a surgeon, even though he wasn't introduced to me as such 🤷‍♀️ whatever he was, he was very good!

I'm sorry IHVRTFT but this has always intrigued me. Wouldn't a surgeon or consultant use their Dr status rather than just being a mere mr/mrs like us normal people.

@lollyforabrolly most medics really don’t care as much as people think about their title.

Historically surgeons weren’t doctors-they were usually dentists so Mr rather than Dr!