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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this isn't sexual assault...

724 replies

harerunner · 02/01/2024 17:21

I saw a story on the BBC about Jenni Hermoso testifying in a sexual assault case about her kiss with Luis Rubiales. Not having seen the kiss, I decided to look at a video of it, a link of which I've put below.

Firstly, i need to say I think sexual assault is extremely serious, and it's appalling how low the conviction rate is for sexual crimes. Men get away with far too much, and it's sickening.

However, in all honesty, i wouldn't class the kiss here as sexual assault. This is a lengthy full body embrace followed by a very brief peck of a kiss.

If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent.

Surely there's much more to this... i reckon she hated the guy before this incident and this was a way to get him back for other shitty and belittling treatment from him over the years.

AIBU?

OP posts:
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Original poster
harerunner · 02/01/2024 18:06

We all give off signals- an extended arm for a handshake, open arms for a hug, standing firmly in place and not turning towards anyone of you want to merely nod your greeting. We have a learning disabled adult who hugs people regardless but generally we all rad the signals. To pretend that social touching is out of the blue with no preparatory dance of consent is disingenuous.

Exactly. He didn't jump on her out of the blue and kiss her. The length and tightness of the embrace was a signal. Sure, he obviously got it wrong, but that doesn't make it assault, any more than you going in for a hug someone after misinterpreted their smile as a non-verbal invitation is assault worthy of being criminalised.

OP posts:
pickledandpuzzled · 02/01/2024 18:06

Why is she expected to be fine with it because she’s a footballer? Should someone on the checkout at Tesco expect to be kissed and grabbed by her boss after a good day’s sales?!

dapsnotplimsolls · 02/01/2024 18:07

She didn't consent. End of.

Original poster
harerunner · 02/01/2024 18:07

Wolfpa · 02/01/2024 18:04

It was unwanted sexual contact where instead of apologising and saying it was done in the moment he dug his heels in on how he could do what ever he wanted and his mum went on hunger strike.

he could have avoided this whole situation by earnestly saying sorry.

i am much more disturbed about the cock grabbing celebration that he did earlier on when they scored.

he is a man who thinks he can do whatever he wants, these are the consequences.

Of course he should have apologised when he realised he'd overstepped.

OP posts:
Original poster
harerunner · 02/01/2024 18:08

pickledandpuzzled · 02/01/2024 18:06

Why is she expected to be fine with it because she’s a footballer? Should someone on the checkout at Tesco expect to be kissed and grabbed by her boss after a good day’s sales?!

I didn't think she was complaining about the embrace. If she is, I accept that changes things.

OP posts:
Original poster
harerunner · 02/01/2024 18:09

@pickledandpuzzled

Are you often kissing people with no preamble?

But the close lengthy embrace was a clear preamble! He didn't kiss her out of the blue!

OP posts:
JustanotherMNSlapperTwat · 02/01/2024 18:13

harerunner · 02/01/2024 18:06

We all give off signals- an extended arm for a handshake, open arms for a hug, standing firmly in place and not turning towards anyone of you want to merely nod your greeting. We have a learning disabled adult who hugs people regardless but generally we all rad the signals. To pretend that social touching is out of the blue with no preparatory dance of consent is disingenuous.

Exactly. He didn't jump on her out of the blue and kiss her. The length and tightness of the embrace was a signal. Sure, he obviously got it wrong, but that doesn't make it assault, any more than you going in for a hug someone after misinterpreted their smile as a non-verbal invitation is assault worthy of being criminalised.

If I hug someone I hug them. That hug is not automatic consent for a forceful kiss on the lips.

I hug some of my colleagues sometimes, if I am close to them and I know they won't mind a hug. You can bet your life I would be sacked if I grabbed their heads and forced a kiss on them. Because a hug is not an automatic preamble to a kiss and therefore should not be taken as consent for one.

GoodOldEmmaNess · 02/01/2024 18:13

YABU. And, yeah, don't kiss a woman on the lips in a workplace situation without explicit verbal consent.

Noseybookworm · 02/01/2024 18:13

He's her boss. If your boss grabbed you like that, held your head and kissed you on the mouth, would you think that was OK???

Grimchmas · 02/01/2024 18:15

I'm fairly sure I read at the time that he had demonstrated some really problematic behaviours to several members of the team and that this was in essence the straw that broke the camel's back.

SouthLondonMum22 · 02/01/2024 18:15

harerunner · 02/01/2024 18:09

@pickledandpuzzled

Are you often kissing people with no preamble?

But the close lengthy embrace was a clear preamble! He didn't kiss her out of the blue!

At the time, he was a UEFA vice president. Would you expect one of the higher ups at work to kiss you? It's inappropriate. Why would she have been expecting it?

MorrisZapp · 02/01/2024 18:15

I've never asked consent for a kiss in my life. Never been asked, either. Have kissed countless people in countless situations.

I think this is an HR matter rather than a police one.

AgentJohnson · 02/01/2024 18:16

I didn't think she was complaining about the embrace. If she is, I accept that changes things.

Does it really? He kissed her! Why should she be ok with that? If your boss embraced you and kissed you, would you be ok with it? He didn’t overstep he did what he did because he felt entitled to and he gave zero fucks about her.

Watch the tea video again because it made things very clear.

Bobbotgegrinch · 02/01/2024 18:16

@harerunner Are you not seeing that he grabs her by the head so that she has absolutely no chance to avoid the kiss? She can't back away, can't turn her head, he's giving her no choice at all.

Even if the embrace was consensual (and the clip you posted starts too late for us to be able to tell that ), it's not a green light for him to force himself on her in other ways.

Flossflower · 02/01/2024 18:18

YABU. She did not consent. Did you also watch the video of him thrusting his groin in celebration!

EdinGirl · 02/01/2024 18:18

When I was 18 a man in a club grabbed my head and kissed me and licked my cheek.

I couldn't move eway, he was so strong and yes... It wasn't as serious as other things that could happen (or have happened to me), but it really affected me.

It's horrible and violating and if you don't consent to something and don't feel you can get away it's so helpless.

I believe that unless you are in an established connection with someone and know what they do/don't like, you should always ask for consent before kissing them.

GuinnessBird · 02/01/2024 18:18

It's unwanted contact, how would you react to a colleague or anyone really kissing you without consent?

nocoolnamesleft · 02/01/2024 18:19

Clearly non consensual sexual contact, so sexual assault seems a reasonable description. Certainly that seems to be what the victim believes it to have been, and she was there.

YoBeaches · 02/01/2024 18:21

I'm absolutely satisfied that his actions meet the legal definition of sexual assault and criminal charges are right to be brought as a result.

You said yourself OP, not enough get convicted, so why on earth would you let this one get away with his misogynistic behaviour?

He is a powerful man of authority, a role model to others.

Think about what you are saying, and why your own self esteem is so low you think it's ok for your boss, or any man you know in a professional context, kiss you like this.

HousePlantNeglect · 02/01/2024 18:21

harerunner · 02/01/2024 18:06

We all give off signals- an extended arm for a handshake, open arms for a hug, standing firmly in place and not turning towards anyone of you want to merely nod your greeting. We have a learning disabled adult who hugs people regardless but generally we all rad the signals. To pretend that social touching is out of the blue with no preparatory dance of consent is disingenuous.

Exactly. He didn't jump on her out of the blue and kiss her. The length and tightness of the embrace was a signal. Sure, he obviously got it wrong, but that doesn't make it assault, any more than you going in for a hug someone after misinterpreted their smile as a non-verbal invitation is assault worthy of being criminalised.

The fact that it is assault is not even up for debate. You could spend a minute on Google to find that out.

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 02/01/2024 18:25

YABU

Original poster
harerunner · 02/01/2024 18:26

MorrisZapp · 02/01/2024 18:15

I've never asked consent for a kiss in my life. Never been asked, either. Have kissed countless people in countless situations.

I think this is an HR matter rather than a police one.

I agree.... though perhaps because he brushed it all off and told her she was a liar, she felt that she needed to pursue it.

If he'd apologised profusely I'm guessing it would have gone away.

Also, I get that he grabbed her head which made a bit more than a simple peck.

I suppose I'm thinking that if every brief kiss requires verbal consent, then we're virtually all guilty of sexual assault, irrespective of sex!

OP posts:
Prescottdanni123 · 02/01/2024 18:26

Did you watch a different video, OP? He gave her a hug and then as she was drawing back, grabbed her head so she couldn't move away and then kissed her. Have you ever been grabbed and kissed against you will? It's not pleasant, believe me.

I received a bear hug of one of the men I volunteer with just before Christmas. The hug was completely consensual and I wasn't expecting him to kiss me at the end. Which he didn't because he is a decent bloke.

A long powerful hug is not preamble to someone kissing you on the mouth. Are you actually his mother?

Simonjt · 02/01/2024 18:26

Remember people who don’t like victims of assault seeking justice often have ulterior motives, as they have money in the game.

Original poster
harerunner · 02/01/2024 18:28

He is a powerful man of authority, a role model to others.

Yes, there is the power dynamic there that id not really taken into account.

OP posts: