To think this isn't sexual assault...

[harerunner]

I saw a story on the BBC about Jenni Hermoso testifying in a sexual assault case about her kiss with Luis Rubiales. Not having seen the kiss, I decided to look at a video of it, a link of which I've put below.

Firstly, i need to say I think sexual assault is extremely serious, and it's appalling how low the conviction rate is for sexual crimes. Men get away with far too much, and it's sickening.

However, in all honesty, i wouldn't class the kiss here as sexual assault. This is a lengthy full body embrace followed by a very brief peck of a kiss.

If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent.

Surely there's much more to this... i reckon she hated the guy before this incident and this was a way to get him back for other shitty and belittling treatment from him over the years.

AIBU?

They will be lucky to find one which is applicable given we are talking about a one second peck.

It was a non consensual sexual assault and the law is the law, whether he “took it well” or not.

shouldn’t she be prosecuted regardless?

Sorry, I was taking Elephant’s lead there.

Sure, prosecute away.

How long does a non-consensual kiss have to last before it counts?

That fits with my expectations after reading part of her Once Upon a Broken Heart series. I did like it, but I knew while I was reading it that it wasn't the best book of the year.

It's my personal view that on booktok, that merely good enough genre fiction has the same chances of going viral as truly exceptional novels, because booktok is dominated by lovely enthusiastic young people whose eyes are too fresh and unjaundiced to spot mildly cliched writing. Which is perfectly fair enough; no-one's born able to recognise a cliched subplot. It's an allergic reaction I only developed after years of –self-inflicted!– over-exposure to subpar writing.

Again, the particulars need not match exactly. They will be looking for principles in similar cases; one does not discard a relevant precedent because it stems from a case where the crime was of longer or shorter duration.

YABU

She was forced
On tv
He invaded her intimately

surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent

Of course you need consent.

Just ask. It's not hard.

But you are changing the content of your argument!

In order to make your point you need pictures of Rubieles (spelling?) kissing male players on the lips - no just randos from football.

Are you God or something/

Every personal experience or opinion is universal experience according to your posts! :)

I suggest you stay off the gin. It does not agree with some women. so perhaps we need to use this as an opportunity to reeducate ourselves as women. Even in this thread there are posters admitting to recent sexual assault of minors.

this is the acid test of your motives here.

I will accept the verdict regardless of what it is. Will you?

Acid test of motive??

This is the kind of asinine, sexist, got ya argument that my nephew tries to pull.

He is 16...

How do you know?

He may have.

He may not have.

Help me out here - why didn't they have the vote?

All we need are one/two/ three photos of him kissing the male players after a win.

That is all that is needed.

That will clear him.

It is evidence that he can control himslef around the men but not around the women.

He has a daughter and a wife.

What he does in secret I do not know.

Why so upset by this @Westernesse ?

YABU. It's not your definition that's important. In Spanish law a kiss without consent can be sexual assault.

Completely agree OP. How on earth kissing can be considered sexual assault when his hands are on her head is beyond me. You could call it overly affectionate, a violation of personal space/autonomy, absolutely. Definitely crosses a line but 'Sexual Assault' is just insane and inaccurate.
So if I move my 8yr old's foot out of my space on the sofa so I can sit down, is that 'sexual assault' as well?

@harerunner "If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent."

Yep. It does. Good.

Interested in your username- any significance to it?

I am sexually submissive and enjoy power exchange dynamics.

I am attracted to confident and assertive men.

The best thing about the kink community is that consent is the most important thing and everyone's priority.

A man asking to kiss me absolutely does not take away from the moment. There are SO many sexy ways to do it and tbh your post screams of perpetuating toxic masculinity.

Someone sensing the moment and softly saying "can I kiss you" and me shaking my head or saying "no" is MUCH less awkward than someone just lunging at me and me having to physically dodge them.

I've been in both scenarios many times and I far prefer the former.

Once you get to know someone and are in an established situation, dynamic or relationship... THEN they can go ahead and kiss without asking because by that time you will have built up a foundation of trust, talked about boundaries etc etc

Actually, it didn't. At all.

I was responding to one poster, and it isn't out of the realm of possibility these days or in the future. I'm sorry that your sense of humor is stuck somewhere over the rainbow. I hope it returns one day.

Until then, you can go on being a FUB. It's amusing.

I didn't need to comment on the sexual assault of the player, enough have confirmed how the majority of women feel. If the player feels it was sexual assault, then she needs to do what needs to be done to address it. If the law hasn't changed yet, she will hopefully raise awareness that change is needed.

Imagine he did this to a 5 year old child, girl or boy.

Why is this different because she is older?

What an odd question. She’s not 5yrs old, that’s a completely different scenario

Oh, so you’d be perfectly happy if I grabbed you forcibly on the street, held hold of your head with both hands so you couldn’t escape and then kissed you. Would you still be going around telling people you hadn’t been sexually assaulted?

Are you using your genitals are lips to move their feet, or touching their genitals to move their feet?

Seems like it's the word sexual that's got some denying it and the fact it's football related that makes it acceptable to some others.

So let's go back to basics. Remove football. Don't bring football back into it. Don't reply with yes but football.. man... Excited...celebration...

It's a work event. It's a manager interacting with an employee at a formal work event.

Was it inappropriate?

Is it appropriate to have your head grabbed and be forcibly kissed at a work event? When you are receiving an award or formal recognition at a work event?

Was it an assault?

Is grabbing someone by the head and restraining them in order to do something to them that they have not consented to, an assault?

Is grabbing someone by the head then forcing a kiss on their lips an assault?

What is a manager grabbing an employee by the head and forcing their lips onto the employee's lips at a work event if not inappropriate and an assault?

What is the difference between an assault and a sexual assault if not intimacy?

Yes or no - is a manager grabbing an employee by the head to restrain them while forcing a kiss on them an action that should result in the employee reporting the manager to HR?

And the million dollar question - what category of assault would HR place the manager's actions under?

This idea that every "escalation" in physical touch requires explicit verbal consent just isn't the practical or realistic. If not doing so counts as sexual assault then 99% of the entire population, men and women, are sexual abusers!

The principles of consent require some common sense and an appreciation of how normal physical interactions occur... It's not helped by dogmatic posts insisting that explicit verbal consent is required for every physical interaction for it not be considered sexual assault!

That said, in this case, I think it's the fact he was holding her head before he kissed her that means he clearly crossed a line. If it was a peck(which is all it was) in an otherwise close physical and consensual embrace, then I don't that could be deemed sexual assault.