To think this isn't sexual assault...

[harerunner]

I saw a story on the BBC about Jenni Hermoso testifying in a sexual assault case about her kiss with Luis Rubiales. Not having seen the kiss, I decided to look at a video of it, a link of which I've put below.

Firstly, i need to say I think sexual assault is extremely serious, and it's appalling how low the conviction rate is for sexual crimes. Men get away with far too much, and it's sickening.

However, in all honesty, i wouldn't class the kiss here as sexual assault. This is a lengthy full body embrace followed by a very brief peck of a kiss.

If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent.

Surely there's much more to this... i reckon she hated the guy before this incident and this was a way to get him back for other shitty and belittling treatment from him over the years.

AIBU?

He did refuse to apogise and change his behaviour. This is the screw him part of the process aka follow the legal process

He WAS given the chance to apologise!

He did refuse to apologise because he said it was consensual. He didn't own up to it being wrong.

This is where you're wrong. It wasn't a judgement of error. It is not on a football pitch where players hug each other. This was an older guy who kissed a young woman against her will. You can't compare that to football players of the same sex on the pitch. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. Many other male players agree with me. Old football administrators who are out of touch might agree with you.

I know what society I want to live in. I'm hoping your one is in the past.

This thread is making feel ill. Too close to home. You shouldn't fear being kissed without your consent when doing your job.

I don’t think we should proceed. I don’t think it meets the threshold of criminality.

Hermoso should, if she felt it appropriate, have made a complaint about him to the Spanish FA or the police and an investigation should have taken place.

instead she accused the man via global media, despite her and all her team-mates initially thinking it was funny. Can he even receive a fair trial? Hard to say.

It’s either a crime or it is not. Whether or not he apologised or chose not to should have zero bearing on that.

if he apologised it would all be ok and you wouldn’t want him prosecuted anymore? Thought not.

You seem to have entirely missed several posters points there

@ElephantMilk
He was offered the chance to apologise but instead he decided to put the blame on her. Rubiales doubled down and lied, he said it was consensual, she did not agree. Then the Spanish Football authorities decided to back him. There were many stories that came out about her, including the laughing on the bus video.
Do you not understand the reason behind consent?
Now Rubiales is being prosecuted, not by Jennie but by the Spanish football authorities.
in my opinion it serves the fucker right. If he'd just said Sorry this wouldn't still be simmering.

I think it's pretty clear he acted spontaneously. Expressions of joy tend to be immediate. You don't sit around and think "wait a moment, shall I pick up my teammate or slide on my knees?"

I can totally see why it was inappropriate but I truly don't believe it was intended as anything other than a celebration with a teammate and I doubt he thought twice as we've already seen how many men have already done it previously without issue.

I honestly think it was an honest judgement of error coming from a place of joy and I wouldn't want to see someone's life ruined over it. I think the huge amount of coverage has already done plenty to make other men think twice.

He stands to lose everything. What has Hermoso actually lost? I don't think there's any great suffering even if it was ill judgement and I'd like to think I'd forgive an honest transgression after laying out my boundaries.

you are simply dodging.

@Westernesse
Rubiales started the trial by Global media, she did not. He lied and continued to lie.
He said she consented she said that she hadn't.

The Spanish Football authorities have the power to prosecute people for sexual assault? No, they don’t.

it has not even beed decided yet that he will be tried. The current court hearings are preliminary hearings to determine whether or not a case will even proceed.

I’ve asked this a few times but will people be willing to accept the outcome if it is not to their liking?

Whilst I'm truly sorry this happened I don't think it's comparable to a celebratory kiss lasting a few seconds. What you describe is not something I can envisage a straight man doing to another man and almost certainly had sexual intent unlike the football kiss.

Your post is incredibly contradictory.

It's as if three separate people wrote each paragraph. An investigation did take place, that's why there's a trial. Whatever the Spanish thresholds for criminality are, the relevant authorities decided it met them. Why are you both saying it should be for the Spanish police/prosecution service to decide, and disagreeing with their decision?

It's all a long time ago now, but as I remember it, she did complain to the Spanish football association. Her entire team complained, in fact!

I don't give a fuck what Rubiales stands to lose, he's a misogynistic man who has been caught being totally inappropriate towards a female footballer. If he loses his job, reputation, livelihood then maybe men will realise that women are not props in their lives.

We don’t know he lied. That has not been established legally. He may very well believe and believe to this day that it was consensual. He may have reason to believe that. We do not know.

perhaps legal proceedings will shed some light. Or perhaps not.

Only after global media accusations. This made any untainted investigation by the Spanish FA impossible.

@Westernesse do you have another username here on Mumsnet, possibly Felix something?

No.

This wasn’t a sliding on the knees situation. There’d been plenty of time to come to terms with the victory and compose himself.

If a person cannot control their emotions and unwittingly grab and kiss another person, they have a serious issue.

She’s not his teammate.

An admission of fault and an apology could have changed the outcome of this. It’s his responsibility and any consequences are on him.

Yes I will.

🤣🤣🤣

If an admission of fault and apology could have changed the outcome then we are forced to conclude it is not sexual assault.

YABU.

See this is just the bonkers viewpoint we only seem to see online whereby everything is 'misogyny' and those that don't agree are handmaidens/cool girls/dick panderers.

The reason I don't think it's a massive drama is because I think he would've acted exactly the same to a man as we've seen many times in football. This is the opposite of misogyny as it's nothing to do with gender. His mistake was treating her the same as he would a bloke rather than being wise and considering that his actions would be interpreted differently.

It's all about the intent for me. If my dog bites my hand hard by accident while trying to take a treat I don't view it the same as him biting me on purpose. It's all about the intent and in this case I think it was misjudged but innocent. Which is likely why he's being so resistant to people's attempts to paint him as some kind of predator.