To think this isn't sexual assault...

[harerunner]

I saw a story on the BBC about Jenni Hermoso testifying in a sexual assault case about her kiss with Luis Rubiales. Not having seen the kiss, I decided to look at a video of it, a link of which I've put below.

Firstly, i need to say I think sexual assault is extremely serious, and it's appalling how low the conviction rate is for sexual crimes. Men get away with far too much, and it's sickening.

However, in all honesty, i wouldn't class the kiss here as sexual assault. This is a lengthy full body embrace followed by a very brief peck of a kiss.

If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent.

Surely there's much more to this... i reckon she hated the guy before this incident and this was a way to get him back for other shitty and belittling treatment from him over the years.

AIBU?

Al Quaeda?

Manchester bombing.

You really, really are scraping the bottom of the barrel using these examples to defend an unpleasant, entitled man.

Hang on, hang on. Let me get this straight. If the argument is that it can’t be sexual assault because:

1. Kissing is a normal and accepted part of football celebrations
2. This is proven by the fact men kiss each other during football celebrations
3. Therefore there was no sexual intent

How do you know that? How do you know he’s not an opportunistic sleaze hiding in plain sight thinking he could get away with it?

I'm saying it won't be a victory. I don't think the general public think somebody should get a criminal record/lose their career for a misjudged non-sexual kiss in a moment of excitement and I don't think it will have a good ending for her.

Would she have had any death threats if she had followed normal procedure as opposed to making her complaint via global media?

death threats should be an automatic jail sentence and there is no excuse.

It’s on you to prove there IS sexual intent. What’s your evidence for that?

Men need to learn to keep their hands and their lips to themselves.

He's holding her like a vice in his bloody hands.

No need for it. Women are not there to be pawed at and slobbered over, just because a man feels exuberant.

Women are much more handsy than men in general.

Oh my Good God it's doubling down on its misogynistic ramblings. What a shame for its family

Who is it you are using dehumanising language about?

The fact that he was able to attend male medal ceremonies and celebrate without grabbing any male footballer by the head and kissing them on the lips?

That is not evidence of sexual intent. You don’t even know if he is straight.

I had a man grab me and kiss me without my consent. It was for over a minute, I was 18, he was about 10 years older and I did not know how to respond whilst he forcibly kissed me and put his tongue in my mouth. For years I blamed myself thinking I must have made it happen on some way. I didn't, it was new year and he stopped me in a corridor and grabbed me.

Some of the views on this thread make me feel sick.

“A moment of excitement”

Are you suggesting he couldn’t control himself?

If it was just a moment of excitement and he couldn't possibly help himself, surely the sex of the footballer wouldn't matter?

Why only a female footballer then?

He tried to use his power as part of the Spanish FA to take legal action against her. He has said plenty, it's just that the media has largely supported her. I wonder why that is? Oh yes. because much older men shouldn't be kissing young women on the lips against their will.

His career is finished. I hope he shows some humility and realises how stupid he was trying to attack her in the first place rather than admitting he was wrong and shouldn't have kissed her against her will.

I hope she lives happily ever after.

@Westernesse
I'm using dehumanising language about the misogynistic fuckers who are desperate to minimise an assault by a powerful man. Fucking sue me if you don't like my choice of language

I haven’t read the whole thread however YABU. Don’t touch/grab/kiss people without their consent. It’s really that simple.

Well, how do we know that there aren't loads of female abusers preying on their nephews/grandsons/etc under the cover of familial affection? It's just common sense.

And as I said above, it's not about this individual man. It's about whether kissing an individual without consent is acceptable. Strictly speaking it's probably best avoided, especially with women where it's a minefield of perceived sexual harassment, but I think most sensible people can see it's more likely this was just a poorly judged football celebration in the heat of the moment and in a relatively customary fashion.

Should she have the right to complain? Yes. Should he then apologise and never do it again? Also yes. However, I don't think a criminal record and losing his career is the answer. End of the day, he was on their side, he wanted them to win, and this was an act of celebration and kinship which would've likely been viewed very differently coming from a female teammate.

Onmy my husband gets to full body hug me and kiss me. Not even HE would grab my head to hold it in place to kiss me because he values my autonomy.

Anyone doing this to me would find themselves in an interview room with the police

If you get your views of the general public from creepy websites and dodgy parts of Twitter, maybe.

He's had a wife and girlfriend

Now that doesn't mean he's straight, he could be bi, he could be in the closet, but unless he comes forward to declare his sexuality as anything other than he presents it I would do him the same respect that I would anyone else in assuming he is what he says he is

In fact implying a person is any other sexuality than they present as or say they are is quite odd behaviour

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm glad you realise it wasn't your fault. I've experienced that kind of thing too. It's gross.

Try to ignore the couple of men on here who obviously have issues about the world having changed.

I’m going to circle back round because I don’t know how to answer that. I’m not a lawyer prosecuting the case.

Given that a non-consensual physical act took place, how should we proceed?

Are we supposed to explain to a grown-ass man in a position of authority exactly WHY it’s a bad idea to grab a woman by the face and kiss her, even if you don’t mean it sexually? Should someone that stupid be in his position in the first place?

Because if you don’t believe that he is that stupid, then the only conclusion is that he knew exactly what he was doing, and should be prosecuted for it.

Facts are that this is the society we live in and witch hunts like this are what fuel this type of behaviour.

IMO it's better to call out this behaviour but give the perpetrator a chance to apologise and change his conduct. If he refuses to then screw him. If it was an intentional act intended to demean then also screw him. But a celebratory kiss much like the many other celebratory kisses seen in football is a judgement of error IMO. As I said earlier it's all about custom and OTT celebrations in football are pretty normal.

“In the heat of the moment”

Are you suggesting he couldn’t control himself?