To think this isn't sexual assault...

[harerunner]

I saw a story on the BBC about Jenni Hermoso testifying in a sexual assault case about her kiss with Luis Rubiales. Not having seen the kiss, I decided to look at a video of it, a link of which I've put below.

Firstly, i need to say I think sexual assault is extremely serious, and it's appalling how low the conviction rate is for sexual crimes. Men get away with far too much, and it's sickening.

However, in all honesty, i wouldn't class the kiss here as sexual assault. This is a lengthy full body embrace followed by a very brief peck of a kiss.

If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent.

Surely there's much more to this... i reckon she hated the guy before this incident and this was a way to get him back for other shitty and belittling treatment from him over the years.

AIBU?

If he had apologised it would suggest that he hadn’t realised it was not consensual.

He refused to apologise and lied about her grabbing him. This suggests that he knows it was not consensual, and so prosecution is appropriate.

What?

It's absolutely standard for people to change their minds about pursuing matters legally because the perpetrator apologised and admitted fault. Across a huge range of offences, from minor car accidents to personal injury.

Accepting an apology doesn't unmake history!

@Westernesse
there has been no admission of fault or an apology so your comment is completely irrelevant and pointless.
You can be forced to conclude whatever you like. I don't have to agree and quite frankly I completely disagree.

Or she could've just said "look mate, don't you dare kiss me again like you do to your laddish mates" rather than trying to ruin his life over an ill judged kiss.

Do you believe she consented to the kiss?

Or he could have just apologised 🤷🏻

No. Much as I never consented to my aunties/granny kissing me.

The reason I'm not too fussed is because I know there was no sexual intent. Had I thought there was it would be an entirely different matter.

@ElephantMilk or she could have accepted his apology....oh wait he didn't make an apology.or he could have said sorry... no hang on he didn't do that either. He and the Spanish football authorities kept on lying and blaming Jenni. We know that they lied, they are on record lying. No amount of fact twisting is going to change the facts.

He kissed her in a moment of joy as dozens of male football players have done over the last few decades. Nothing more, nothing less. He isn't a pervert, he's a man who didn't think before acting and I don't think that's worthy of ruining his life. Maybe some reeducation but people were baying for blood and in his shoes I'd have probs thought 'fuck em'.

Because it really wasn't a big deal. They know this so they're not going to roll over.

And it would be entirely appropriate in that instance that you lose your extremely powerful job.

Yet in all of the male medal ceremonies, he has managed not to kiss any of the male footballers.

Surely you can either control yourself or you can't?

If you believe she didn't consent then all the rest is irrelevant as under Spanish law a kiss without consent is considered sexual assault

The law has been written in such a way to make it clear that consent is the deciding factor in whether it is sexual assault or not

Eh, no. People don’t get to decide not to press charges. That’s something in soap operas.

so what are you saying? If he apologised and Hermoso didn’t pursue or cooperate with a criminal complaint that what you witnessed would no longer be sexual assault in your eyes?

@ElephantMilk
you keep repeating the same old chestnuts, just because you are like broken record doesn't make them true.
Rubiales grabbed her head after he had rubbed his body on hers several times. He grabbed her head, she couldn't move. If you think that's ok I'm very sorry for the people that share your stable.

That’s not the truth regarding Spanish law at all. A kiss on the lips without consent can, where sexual intent is proven, be considered a more minor form of sexual assault.

can sexual intent be proven? I doubt it.

And yet I've probably had more Spanish people kiss my cheek without consent than any other nationality. Well, maybe Italians but both are repeat offenders.

Do I care? Not one bit as the intent is not sexual.

But whether or not you care is irrelevant to this case

The guy who assaulted me could have claimed it was an in the moment of celebration thing, it was new year and everyone kisses on new year. No matter what his intent was, he touched me without my consent. I see no difference with Rubiales, his actions were not consensual no matter his "intent". In British law sexual intent is not necessary in sexual assault.

Intent is not the deciding factor, consent is, It's very clear under their new laws. They don't have a more minor form of sexual assault, that was the old laws

That’s not true. Intent is always relevant as a matter of mitigation both in terms of evidence and in sentencing in the event of a conviction.

If you had said to your aunties and grannies that you didn’t like them kissing you and you didn’t want them to do it in the future, and they argued and said you do like it really, and the rest of your family had said “they do it in the heat of the moment” and “they’re doing it out of joy” and “they do it to lots of other young relatives and have done for years…”

That would also be fucked up.

Thing is, this cancel culture tends to affect women more than men in aggregate. I'm just not a fan of it. I'm prepared to forgive a genuine transgression and I don't need them to grovel on their knees. Being told and changing your behaviour is enough IMO.

It's not like he groped her.

Are you talking about Spain?

When’s the trial for the woman who sexually assaulted the jockey?