To think this isn't sexual assault...

[harerunner]

I saw a story on the BBC about Jenni Hermoso testifying in a sexual assault case about her kiss with Luis Rubiales. Not having seen the kiss, I decided to look at a video of it, a link of which I've put below.

Firstly, i need to say I think sexual assault is extremely serious, and it's appalling how low the conviction rate is for sexual crimes. Men get away with far too much, and it's sickening.

However, in all honesty, i wouldn't class the kiss here as sexual assault. This is a lengthy full body embrace followed by a very brief peck of a kiss.

If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent.

Surely there's much more to this... i reckon she hated the guy before this incident and this was a way to get him back for other shitty and belittling treatment from him over the years.

AIBU?

All players so the power imbalance isn't there.
2 aren't on the lips.
1 they are both holding each others head so it's clearly consensual.

I think it's reaching to consider those to be the same scenario. We are talking about a hugely important, powerful UEFA vice president who didn't train with her most days or play with her most weekends so had little to no relationship with her.

I dunno what kind of family YOU are from but in my family, that of my friends and my ILs I can safely say no woman has ever held a man’s head so he can’t move and full on kissed them on the lips.

Women often laugh to deal with trauma. The camaraderie helps us heal. Who hasn’t rolled their eyes about flashers or handsy old uncles? We still reserve the right to tackle it.

Also what kind of fucked world do we live in when we tell a woman who says she was sexually assaulted “You can’t have been! Look at pictures of unrelated men kissing other men in completely different scenarios. Silly women you are”

Intent is never “irrelevant”, despite this being some weird catchy slogan. There is no area of law where intent is irrelevant. It is always considered as mitigation.

Some people talk absolute shit. Whether they are a woman or not is irrelevant.

Yeah. This wasn’t that.

Women have hundreds of times held your head and forced you to kiss them?

Non-consensual kissing is and has always been sexual assault in the UK and I strongly suspect it is in the jurisdictions involved here too.

Any women doing it should stop too as they are indeed committing sexual assault. Whether there would be more female than male offenders is highly debatable (as the stats don't back it up but suppose there is an epidemic on unreported sexual assaults by women) and also irrelevant to the whether it constitutes sexual assault (as it does).

Well clearly no, of course that wouldn't be okay.

I don't care what his intention was, kissing a woman on the lips is a sexual contact. I don't care whether he was celebrating or not. The point is it's not acceptable.

If men in the same team have a culture where it's okay to kiss each other, then that's up to them. It doesn't mean male administrators can decide it's okay for them to kiss much younger, opposite sex players.

Not to mention the point was about the man in question. If he managed to control himself during male medal ceremonies, which he did then he sure as hell can control himself during female medal ceremonies too. He chose not to.

His intent was to kiss her whether she wanted that or not, as was made clear by subsequent behaviour.

Did he plot it? Dream of grabbing opportunities? Of course not. He just habitually does what he wants with no regard for other people’s preferences.

The fact he thinks it’s not a big deal despite being told it was wrong is exactly why it needs challenging.

But by all means, it’s awful to ruin a man’s life over this. Those pesky women should carry on laughing on the bus, and remember to just put up with it.

But the perpetrator’s claim to what their intent is isn’t necessarily true. Especially if they have been caught doing something wrong and know it. Or are we just believing perpetrators now?

”Sorry officer, I wasn’t spying on the woman next door changing, these supersonic binoculars are for…erm..: bird watching! and I simply got distracted”

What kind of legal system would we have if we just went “Oh ok”

I have been kissed and touched without express verbal consent many, many times. As an adjusted adult, I can tell the difference between exuberant affection and sexual assault. I have been pecked on the lips by all sorts of people over the decades without me verbally agreeing before hand. It was not sexual assault.

this whole debacle has trivialised rather than highlighted real sexual assault. It has not helped women.

men are routinely criticised for “not doing enough” to support the women’s game. I wouldn’t blame them for not wanting to be involved in future.

women can go and build their own FIFA or UEFA and build their own game completely independent of the men’s game so maybe they should do that.

Then you need to have compelling evidence that their account is not true.

I have never smooched a random child on the lips, forcing them to kiss me, either. Nor have I seen this, ever.

I don't need any reeducation, thanks.

It really wasn’t a big deal. I agree, they should have had their laugh about it and left it at that.

men are routinely criticised for “not doing enough” to support the women’s game. I wouldn’t blame them for not wanting to be involved in future.

You mean like the male Spanish footballers who criticised the assault with one of them threatening not to play again unless something was done about it? Sounds like they wanted to be involved tbh

Same for me. Big kisses from my grannies, aunties until at least my early teens. Defo into the hundreds.

Gosh yes. No men can support women’s football for fear of accidentally sexually assaulting someone.

I don’t see the correlation here. Do you really?

are these players now pursuing careers in coaching, officiating or administrating women’s football?

Actually you’re clearly here for shits and giggles and the joy of a scrap. What’s that saying about wrestling a pig? I’ll bow out.

women can go and build their own FIFA or UEFA and build their own game completely independent of the men’s game so maybe they should do that.

@Westernesse what do you mean by this?

I think it’s more the fear of being open to ridiculous allegations. Mud sticks.