To think this isn't sexual assault...

[harerunner]

I saw a story on the BBC about Jenni Hermoso testifying in a sexual assault case about her kiss with Luis Rubiales. Not having seen the kiss, I decided to look at a video of it, a link of which I've put below.

Firstly, i need to say I think sexual assault is extremely serious, and it's appalling how low the conviction rate is for sexual crimes. Men get away with far too much, and it's sickening.

However, in all honesty, i wouldn't class the kiss here as sexual assault. This is a lengthy full body embrace followed by a very brief peck of a kiss.

If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent.

Surely there's much more to this... i reckon she hated the guy before this incident and this was a way to get him back for other shitty and belittling treatment from him over the years.

AIBU?

Yet when the mens team won in 2010, he managed not to grab any of them by the head and kiss them on the lips.

So you don't think I could find numerous examples of male players/coaches kissing each other within a 30 second Google search?

It was never acceptable for men to grab a woman and kiss her on the lips without consent.

It is not a witchhunt. Only if you somehow believe that he has done nothing wrong, and that's your problem, not anybody else's.

Believing that someone cannot change sex is not in the ballpark of sexual assault, what a weird comparison.

Discussion and communication of boundaries is not the way forward. Have you noticed how far this man has pushed back despite the widespread opprobrium and has tried to get the football player cancelled.

Why are you putting offending party in inverted commas? The problem is you don't really think he did anything wrong and that says everything about how these attitudes spread. You are influenced by a societal view in certain quarters that these kind of behaviours are just boys being boys and we shouldn't make a fuss.

If this has shown anything, it's shown that most women and a lot of men aren't prepared to play things down, not make a fuss, be compliant any more. That doesn't change anything. Making a fuss absolutely does.

You mean apart from the Spanish posters on the thread?

The Spanish public, the male Spanish footballers, the female Spanish footballers, the Spanish Prime Minister

I have already said all of this as you would have seen of you had used the quote history button

You were the one who had decided he had lost his career for being "ecstatic"

Therefore his past conduct is relevant as is shows a pattern of behaviour that points to something other than ecstatic celebrations

Well obviously I am then so let’s leave it there. If you think your own opinion is the one that matters then maybe try to speak to people nicely and you will get your point across a bit better. Your posts are snippy, rude and not because of your opinion but the manner in which you deliver. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. All the best for 2024

In reality, this man was ecstatic with his team's performance and showing his happiness at their victory - like he was in 2020.

Why did he not hold the male players in a headlock, kiss them on the lips and smack their bum?

Is there a difference?

Nonsense, i'm in Denia right now and people think he was out of order, no one supports him... he crossed cultural boundaries.

I was greeted in Valencia airport by my (male Spanish) friend who did not hug me or kiss me on the lips......

I think the uncomfortable reality is that if non-consenting kissing is sexual assault then there are almost certainly more female sex offenders than male.

He wasn't her manager/coach.

On the lips? With one of them being held firmly by the head so they couldn't move away even if they wanted to?

There are far more Auntie Flo's out there than football coaches.....

Yup, see my link pages ago.

WHAT?

He grabbed her head and gave her a kiss on the lips.

he would not do that to a male football player.

Its sexual assault, and she has said so herself.

If something like this is classed as sexual assault, then it surely makes it impossible to initiate anything physical at all without explicit verbal consent.

FFS they aren’t on a date, this is a woman is receiving a medal because she is on the best team in the world in her field - she deserves the fucking respect to be treated like the professional she is.

Nah I don't think so

I think it actually far ruder to be telling the Spanish people on this thread that they are wrong about their culture

But you do you

How so? I’ve never seen a woman force someone to kiss them at work

After an attempt to discuss it with him, he announced it was fine and consensual, despite her disagreeing. So absolutely let’s resolve these things by communication- and then prosecute when people refuse to listen.

I saw cheek kisses and one that was actually a bite, not a kiss.

I didn't see anyone firmly holding someone's head and kissing them on the lips? I also didn't see any similar power imbalances either.

Less than 30 seconds on Google.....

And yet in all my 60 plus years I've managed not to forcibly kiss any man on the lips. From what I have read, nobody is saying that it's okay for women to kiss men against their will.

Don't try and make this about the poor men being treated differently. It's not about that at all. If a woman in a position of authority had kissed a much younger male player on the lips without consent and held his head so he couldn't move, I would also say that's not acceptable.

I could no more grab my husband’s head and kiss him without his cooperation than I could climb Everest! And he’s a lightweight.

What about a woman many decades your senior when you're a helpless kid? Definitely an even bigger authority imbalance. Sexual intent is irrelevant as the football kiss was a celebration not an aroused kiss.

It was always female family members that did the smooching in the past (never the men) so perhaps we need to use this as an opportunity to reeducate ourselves as women. Even in this thread there are posters admitting to recent sexual assault of minors.

Several of those pictures are clearly mutual- each holding each other’s head, or heads tilted towards each other.

Some of them are much less clear and may well be inappropriate- for all we know it was addressed after the match and the offender apologised for over exuberance. Unlike this guy who chose to double down and attempted to blame her for being over sensitive. Much like some posters on this thread.

Hermoso and her team-mates all thought it was a great laugh on the bus after the game.

it was a faux pas and somewhat partidge-Espie by the guy in question. Certainly not sexual assault. If that is sexual assault then I have been sexually assaulted hundreds of times. By women.

I think that to see a man destroyed for something so trivial and innocuous actually does not help women in any way.

You seem to have an agenda @ElephantMilk ?

I agree forcing sloppy kisses on children is wrong and should be stopped. Things change. This happened last year and isn’t comparable with Auntie Maud when you were 4.

It’s absolutely relevant when the woman, who on that moment should have had a moment about her achievement, says it was assault. Intent is irrelevant FFS.

How come her never kisses men on the lips? He’s given them plenty of medals.

It never ceases to amaze me how many women happily shit on other women from great heights