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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To draw your attention to Mr Bates vs The Post Office

810 replies

5foot5 · 01/01/2024 22:27

There is already a thread about this on the Telly Addicts forum here

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/4970440-mr-bates-vs-the-post-office-mon-to-thur-itv-9pm-tv-pace-no-spoilers

However this seems like such an important subject that I thought I would draw attention to it on AIBU.

The first episode aired tonight but the whole series is available on itvx.

Most of you will no doubt have heard about the Horizon scandal, but whether you have or you haven't this program is compelling. It will probably make you furious but it deserves as wide an audience as possible.,

MR BATES VS THE POST OFFICE - mon to thur ITV 9pm - tv pace no spoilers | Mumsnet

Mon to thur  Mr Bates vs The Post Office is an ITV drama based on a true story of injustice starring Toby Jones, Julie Hesmondhalgh, WIll Mello...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/4970440-mr-bates-vs-the-post-office-mon-to-thur-itv-9pm-tv-pace-no-spoilers

OP posts:
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FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 01/01/2024 23:55

To be honest, with some exceptions, it very much seems to me that the honours system is designed to do the exact opposite of what we all assume.

Nobody could be that incompetent by accident to specifically choose quite a large number of people who have left a huge trail of disaster and ruined innocent lives in their wake.

Not that it would happen in a million years, but were I theoretically told I was to be admitted to the honours 'club', I would take immense offence at them wanting to group me in with many of those people.

Mogs43 · 02/01/2024 00:09

prh47bridge · 01/01/2024 23:24

There is a petition to strip Paula Vennells of her CBE. Strip Paula Vennells of her CBE | 38 Degrees

I’ve signed the petition. Unfortunately I don’t have much confidence in anything being done. She was a non-exec on the Cabinet Office Board. It is the Cabinet Office who decide whether someone should forfeit honours : so slim to no chance they will do anything against one of their own.

Also astounded that she was paid £5M at the Post Office and yet offered so little compensation to people whose whole lives were ruined.

That she was also an Anglican priest is unbelievable….

JL690 · 02/01/2024 00:11

It was harrowing but the story needs told.

Floogal · 02/01/2024 00:22

Just saw it, probably watch the rest on ITV X tomorrow. absolutely appalling. I won't be surprised that some people will expose how shoddily PayPoint treat retailers. Though not as bad as Horizon and the post office.

Serena1977 · 02/01/2024 00:27

All of the minions knew there was a problem with the horizon system from its roll out in in1999/2000. MIL worked for the post office and retired in 2005 and was always saying her and her colleagues were reporting oddities and glitches all the time to middle management but nobody listened to them.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 02/01/2024 00:28

I might just be being ridiculous, but I wasn't convinced that the jokey Direct Line ad-buffer/sponsor segments on ITV were in particularly good taste, considering the subject matter.

Yes, it's a drama, but squarely based on very recent (actually, still ongoing) factual events, which have wrecked countless lives.

I don't think it's the same at all with other 'standard' adverts, as they stand alone separately in the commercial breaks; but when you're deliberately making a big thing about associating them with the programme matter...

FrostJack · 02/01/2024 00:28

I've just watched the first 3 or 4 episodes back to back, I've lost track as I just let the episodes roll into the next. I started the next one and my watch beeped to tell me it's midnight! It's really gripping and what a disappointment and scandal that so many people could lie for so long. I'd watch it till the end now but DH keeps grumbling next to me in bed saying it's too intense as he's trying to go to sleep 🙄a must watch.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 02/01/2024 00:31

Serena1977 · 02/01/2024 00:27

All of the minions knew there was a problem with the horizon system from its roll out in in1999/2000. MIL worked for the post office and retired in 2005 and was always saying her and her colleagues were reporting oddities and glitches all the time to middle management but nobody listened to them.

Computers are amazing and indispensable as slaves to our modern lives; but we let them become our unassailable masters at our great peril.

WGACA · 02/01/2024 00:32

It is important to keep this horrendous scandal in the public eye. It is beyond comprehension what they did to those innocent hard working people. I have listened to the podcast and signed the petition.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 02/01/2024 00:46

Wouldn't it be wonderful and a great sign of basic democracy if, as part of the conditions of receiving an honour, you had to agree to defend your right to keep it - recorded and televised - if, say, 100,000 members of the British population (on whose behalf these honours are theoretically granted) express clearly reasoned doubts as to your worthiness to continue to hold it?

I know that it wouldn't really be of much help to the scapegoated PO workers, but it would be very satisfying to see some of these people required to attend court themselves and have their reputation, integrity and behaviour scrutinised. There could be a jury of 12 ordinary people, as normal (15 if in Scotland).

As a civilised alternative, I would allow them to 'settle out of court' by publicly relinquishing all rights to their honour in advance - this fact too being published prominently across all the media, so that the people could draw their own personal conclusions.

Blair would be right at the top of my list.

MarieKlepto · 02/01/2024 00:51

This was such an under reported story. People have died or taken their own lives without the truth coming out. No one has taken on our local PO since the owners retired (they were operating in the midst of this, not accused, city centre branch). What was a 10 min walk is now half an hour to our nearest. The shop sits empty with a sign on the front and has done for two years, yet is on still on the franchise list. No wonder no one wants to take it on.

girlfriend44 · 02/01/2024 00:53

Dreadful. Bloody computers. Very frightening for the people involved.
So glad they all got together in the end though.

The ex CEO should be stripped off her CBE or whatever she got.

5foot5 · 02/01/2024 01:01

Stripping people of their honours is a start but, in my opinion, goes nowhere near far enough. It is just a cosmetic thing.

Some people must surely be held criminally responsible for the massive cover up which led to all those normal, small business people having their lives wrecked.

OP posts:
FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 02/01/2024 01:12

5foot5 · 02/01/2024 01:01

Stripping people of their honours is a start but, in my opinion, goes nowhere near far enough. It is just a cosmetic thing.

Some people must surely be held criminally responsible for the massive cover up which led to all those normal, small business people having their lives wrecked.

Oh, absolutely.

First they should face proper justice, then the shame that they have so purposefully earned.

ClareBlue · 02/01/2024 01:16

Private Eye reported on this for years before it all broke. For some reason it just wasn't picked up in the main stream media. There were too many reputations by association at stake and a general thinking that it just couldn't be happening on this scale. The IT company lied and lied in criminal prosecutions. I remember reading in PE a good few years ago that this would go down as the biggest injustice in British criminal history. They weren't wrong.
The establishment and vested interests kept on literally destroying lives to protect themselves and rewarding those that implemented the conspiracy.

chaosmaker · 02/01/2024 01:19

And PE got it from Computer Weekly I think it was that first reported it. It is appalling and like so much that is criminal in this country was not investigated even when ministers were aware that it was the Horizon system and not their constituents that were to blame. Private Eye has kept on reporting on it for over a decade. It really should be required reading to alert the public to all the scandal that goes on daily by our so-called leaders.

mottytotty · 02/01/2024 04:16

Sparklesocks · 01/01/2024 22:53

Really awful.

popbitch had an interesting bit on this…how revealing

That’s fucking awful if ITV have kept Adam Crozier out of it because he was their CEO after leaving Royal Mail.

Shame on them.

LakieLady · 02/01/2024 07:47

The whole business was the most appalling scandal, made even worse by the long delay in getting justice for those affected.

But what amazes me is that the system was ever allowed to go live when it had this appalling flaw. Surely this should have come to light during testing?

GoingUpUpUp · 02/01/2024 08:03

I watched the whole thing last night on itvx.

It was compelling and horrifying. How it was allowed to happen. The poor people who lost their savings, their livelihoods, their health and in some cases their lives is beyond understanding.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 02/01/2024 08:05

The Radio 4 podcast linked above is really good. The journalist who made it has added new episodes over the years as events have moved on. I listened to the whole thing a few weeks ago and was absolutely incensed. I knew about this before, but the more you know about it the worse it gets. Not sure what stage the public enquiry has got to, but looking at the coverage of that, it was a long line of former senior PO directors and managers saying 'I had no idea there was any problem' - really?

Was it Fujitsu operating the Horizon helpline, or the PO? Either way, something seems to have gone very badly wrong there, as those were the people telling the subpostmasters that nobody else was having any problems when quite obviously they were. I can't remember if it's in the podcast or an article I read but there was outright racism there as a former helpline staff member reported that some of her colleagues would answer the phone, mute the call and call out to the room (big open plan room) 'I've got another Patel on the line!' or words to that effect, and many of them would laugh and cheer. And then of course the call centre operative would fob the caller off, as we know. Where was the management? What kind of culture did they have there that this overt racism was not picked up and dealt with? Why didn't they notice or care that they weren't sorting out so many problems? Why didn't PO staff responsible for monitoring that contract take them to task over it?

(Racism also clear from the fact that subpostmasters from ethnic minority groups were much more likely to get custodial sentences, apparently.) Angry Sad

Also, why on earth didn't senior PO staff and the judiciary notice that the number of prosecutions of subpostmasters for dishonesty had gone through the roof? As I understand it, the Royal Mail set up its own police force hundreds of years ago, before the country as a whole had any organised police, so that they could investigate thefts from the mail, which were and are common. The culture is that they are investigating theft, which is obviously a problem for a service handling parcels and letter post that may have valuable items or information. However, when also given the task of auditing subpostmasters they behaved as if they were still investigating a lightfingered postman or a gang stealing parcels. No thought given to the fact that subpostmasters were running their own small businesses and discrepancies could be down to mistakes or (as we now know, of course) computer problems. It's scandalous that in the 21st century they are able to prosecute without going anywhere near the police or Crown Prosecution Service.

ssd · 02/01/2024 08:36

I agree, everyone should watch this and justice really needs to be done.
Have signed the above petition.

LakeTiticaca · 02/01/2024 08:38

Horrifying. They knew from the start that there was an issue with Horizon but chose to ignore it . The people in charge of this fiasco should be put before the courts

LonelynSad · 02/01/2024 08:39

ZeViteVitchofCwismas · 01/01/2024 23:03

Is it suitable for 12 years old to watch

Def not. A lady stabs herself bd a man walks out in front of a bus Sad