Term time holidays

[Idontusuallypostonherebut]

I'm a parent governor at my little ones school. I guess I would say I support the school in most of their policies, but some of them I find a tad ridiculous. I know that the government or the LA are the ones behind fines for taking children out of school for unauthorised absences. But having sat in the recent meeting and hear the HT saying oh yes we definitely enforce the fines for unauthorised absence. It just leaves me a bit baffled why because not once in these meetings have they ever said that the LA gave that money to the school.

I know the argument is mostly something like if parents get a fine once it might make the think twice about doing it again... But the reality is it likely won't. If you're going to get fined 60 pounds for each parent and it's considerably cheaper for a holiday in term time you're most likely going to do it again.

Over the weekend we were catching up with friends and one mum said her kids finished school on 15th December, and only go back on the 5th - for one day, she said if they had been abroad visiting family they'd have stayed away until 5th or 6th so the kids benefit from longer with relatives. One friend always takes her children away the weekend right before the summer holidays start - weirdly our schools seem to do Tuesday or Wednesday finish, so she just calls them in sick those 2/3 days. My sister in law sometimes takes her kids out at the end of the week before the official end of term too because she says otherwise they can't afford to go to visit family abroad. I read a post on here last week about people saying it didn't feel very Christmassey because the kids were at school until late.... I know some schools didn't finish until 22nd and then of course it was practically Christmas eve, so no time to prepare /get over the end of term sickness bugs. Someone said they also took their kids out the last few days to avoid them getting sick for Christmas and to do crafts and stuff in their house, as the children aren't really doing much in school those last couple of days anyway.

I don't know I just feel a bit like am I the only one who isn't taking kids out of school to benefit from more time with family /cheaper prices /avoiding illnesses. Last year my husband wanted us to take a term time holiday and I shot him down, we argued about it and paid a fortune for the same holiday in school holidays time.

I wish we'd taken those 3 days off so we didn't get a sickness bug/flu that was doing the rounds and took us out for the pretty entire holiday so far.

But I read a post on here, about 10 years old now - but people were saying a parent governors position should be untenable if they don't support the school on unauthorised absence. People were saying the parent governors as part of the board have to approve the policies but this is a government policy so not optional

So what are people's opinions......

My opinion is that you do whatever you want I don't care what the governors do as long as they are fined the same as everyone else

I don't agree with the fines either, I have taken my child out term time once for 5 school days and the snotty letter about attendance I got was upsetting, almost implying I didn't care about my child's attendance. However my child experienced a different country and culture and most of all family time so I would pay the fine again. However as you are a governor I think it would ruffle a lot of feathers for you x

Care about my child's education that was meant to say

I know the argument about keeping attendance up, and know what ‘the rules’ are trying to do, but it obviously isn’t working as attendance has been terrible since Covid.

Currently it just means that those that can afford the fine and to go on holiday go anyway, and those that take a few days at the end of term aren’t really the target.

The kids they want to reach are those that are struggling, are off because they aren’t keeping up, for childcare of younger siblings, or caring for their parents, or between homes, or neglected in some way.

If your kids are doing ok at school I don’t see a problem with a few days off, but the fining system as it is just isn’t solving a bigger social problem.

As a governor you are expected to uphold the Nolan Principles. See below and Governance Handbook.

Agreeing and ratifying government policy in behalf of the school, then doing your own thing and contravening the policy you have agreed to put in place would be an issue under the Nolan Principles.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-7-principles-of-public-life/the-7-principles-of-public-life--2

It just leaves me a bit baffled why because not once in these meetings have they ever said that the LA gave that money to the school.

The fine does not go to the school.

The LA does NOT give the fine money to the school. Though I'm not sure why you mention it as it's the same everywhere and heads - supported in the school absence policy by the governors who have AGREED it - don't have any choice about it.

I think regardless of your personal views you can’t be seen to be acting in contravention of a policy you have approved.

I do agree that it seems silly to insist on attendance for e.g. the last few days before Christmas, but for me the point is that if attendance falls below a certain level due to unauthorised absence it can trigger certain consequences for the school in terms of local authority interventions, and I think it can even lead to an OFSTED grading of inadequate in some situations- is that something you want to contribute to as a governor? I also think that if the teachers are turning up to teach you should send your kids in unless they are ill. Also whilst the system continues to function with a few people taking kids out, if everyone did it there would definitely be a bit of a nightmare for teachers. I’d consider taking my kids out and accepting a fine for something truly unusual, or extraordinary, like a wedding or a funeral, but not for anything else.

I would say at an individual level, for many children a few days here and there is no biggie if they otherwise have good attendance. However as a teacher it is a complete pain. I work in a school where children are not fined and historically there has been an attitude of ‘sure, take them and have a lovely time!’ and I had over 1/3 of the class off the week before Xmas (I’m not exaggerating). To be fair one was sickness but the others were holidays. I couldn’t really teach anything of importance as I’d have to reteach it next term which is a waste of time for those who were there in the last week. Also we had things like a Carol concert, where children had rehearsed with the orchestra all term then weren’t there to perform, and we had to reassign readers’ lines at a couple of days notice putting more pressure on other kids. If term time holidays were actually permitted, this would be probably be same situation week in week out, especially at the start and end of terms (and contrary to popular belief, many schools do teach right up to the last day, we don’t have a full week of watching movies at mine!)

I take a week out for skiing in term time so would not judge anyone else for doing it.

However our parent governor parks on the zig zags, blocking the lollipop lady’s visibility and I now think he’s a massive bellend and have zero respect for him. So there is something in being seen to set an example.

Agree we should..... but when you see the people at the very top of the pile (government ministers) completely ignoring them, why should the little people (school governors and the like) pay heed to them?

Our school now do home visits for any child off sick in the last or first week of term to make sure they aren’t actually on holiday

I know what you are saying and hate this government…

However, that doesn't change the role that the OP has signed up to and in a community, locally, working face to face, this could be divisive and stressful.

Ultimately, individual governors can be removed by the school governing board and the whole governing board( maintained schools) can be removed by the LA. This removal and replacement of a board does flag to OFSTED as a school causing concern and could bring about an inspection.

I absolutely agree with term time holidays, i imagine that of those who do it is for the odd 2- 3days / 1 week at the most , of course there will be the odd example of piss taking but my opinion is that years down the line when looking back none of this will be relevant ,life is short and its not all about school , there are so many other ways to educate children.
However i would feel hypocritical taking term time holidays when in the role of a school governor ,you can't really sit in 'judgement 'of parents who do something the school opposes when you too do the same.

@guessmyage11 Yes we got a snotty letter about attendance in the first school year when we had suffered just about every bug back to back on repeat and it implied that I didn't care about attendance.... They said something like looking forward to seeing attendance improvement as a result of the letter. I was like errrm the letter isn't going to stop kids being sick. I was upset and annoyed because only one of the days had been after kid turned 5....and technically we still weren't at compulsory school age

You've said it yourself. A £60 fine per parent is hardly a detterant is it? Let's be Frank the GOV couldn't care less and its certainly not because they are interested in a child loosing education. It's a money making thing! I'm surprised they haven't increased the fine it's pathetic and I say that as a mum who does take DC out of school.

@LifesTooShortForYourNonsense I agree, like you say issues are deeper than term time holidays, like you say some children just aren't taken to school for a multitude of reasons - I guess we don't see the consequences of that though

@EstaFB thanks I'm aware of the Nolan principles and taking children out of school for holidays isn't something that I have done. But like many other parents I believe that sometimes children do benefit more from travel - seeing different cultures /family abroad at a price that is more suitable and less stressful for their parents

@EstaFB yes I know the fine doesn't go to the school, although I feel there might be benefit if it did. But that's a whole other subject

I took DD out a few times and would have in 2020 but holiday was cancelled.
school werent bothered. She had perfect attendance otherwise.

ironic as she’s in secondary and had long periods off because of her mental health. Seems even less important now.

@VickyEadieofThigh based on various posts I've read on here a lot of headteachers don't push through to the LA for fines because they themselves don't believe in it. As a governor I don't agree with several of the school policies that were in place before I took on the role, but even if they came up for discussion I doubt that they're going to change them

It's government policy. Absence rates are up since before the pandemic and there are many possible reasons why. What schools really care about are the children being kept off school for spurious or inappropriate reasons. There are more of these than in the past. Sometimes they are linked to safe guarding issues or suspected Munchausen syndrome (definitely at least one of the latter where I work).

And no it wouldn't look great if a parent governor didn't uphold school policy. As for poor attendance for under 5s - that is a massive issue due to it not being compulsory. It really doesn't help the teachers achieve good progress and consistent learning for these children.

Kids are only in school 38 weeks a year, I don't see the issue with taking holidays in those 14 weeks. Yes prices are higher so take different holidays. Once kids are grown you get to take cheaper holidays!

@Heronwatcher thanks, I haven't taken the kids out and like I said got into an argument over it, and often it feels like a balancing act to keep dad and bank account happy v's an unpaid voluntary role that in theory I could be ejected from at any time which I guess is what's got me thinking following conversations with others. I think unless they're sick they should be in school, but I do also see benefits in exploring other cultures and family .... For example my sister in law if she waited until the school holidays started to take her kids abroad the cost is astounding, but if she books it in term time outbound she can get flights for 35 pounds. We have a family wedding next year now and I've even debated not going until the evening - but can't see that going down all that well either

I was a parent governor at primary school and we took our dc out for a week every January.

we were completely honest with school and they authorised the absence every year. We’re in Wales if that makes any difference (education is a devolved matter).