Term time holidays

[Idontusuallypostonherebut]

I'm a parent governor at my little ones school. I guess I would say I support the school in most of their policies, but some of them I find a tad ridiculous. I know that the government or the LA are the ones behind fines for taking children out of school for unauthorised absences. But having sat in the recent meeting and hear the HT saying oh yes we definitely enforce the fines for unauthorised absence. It just leaves me a bit baffled why because not once in these meetings have they ever said that the LA gave that money to the school.

I know the argument is mostly something like if parents get a fine once it might make the think twice about doing it again... But the reality is it likely won't. If you're going to get fined 60 pounds for each parent and it's considerably cheaper for a holiday in term time you're most likely going to do it again.

Over the weekend we were catching up with friends and one mum said her kids finished school on 15th December, and only go back on the 5th - for one day, she said if they had been abroad visiting family they'd have stayed away until 5th or 6th so the kids benefit from longer with relatives. One friend always takes her children away the weekend right before the summer holidays start - weirdly our schools seem to do Tuesday or Wednesday finish, so she just calls them in sick those 2/3 days. My sister in law sometimes takes her kids out at the end of the week before the official end of term too because she says otherwise they can't afford to go to visit family abroad. I read a post on here last week about people saying it didn't feel very Christmassey because the kids were at school until late.... I know some schools didn't finish until 22nd and then of course it was practically Christmas eve, so no time to prepare /get over the end of term sickness bugs. Someone said they also took their kids out the last few days to avoid them getting sick for Christmas and to do crafts and stuff in their house, as the children aren't really doing much in school those last couple of days anyway.

I don't know I just feel a bit like am I the only one who isn't taking kids out of school to benefit from more time with family /cheaper prices /avoiding illnesses. Last year my husband wanted us to take a term time holiday and I shot him down, we argued about it and paid a fortune for the same holiday in school holidays time.

I wish we'd taken those 3 days off so we didn't get a sickness bug/flu that was doing the rounds and took us out for the pretty entire holiday so far.

But I read a post on here, about 10 years old now - but people were saying a parent governors position should be untenable if they don't support the school on unauthorised absence. People were saying the parent governors as part of the board have to approve the policies but this is a government policy so not optional

So what are people's opinions......

@modgepodge bless you. I can see that would be pretty annoying for you if you're teaching things and then like you say have to go back and reteach it to the other two thirds of the class. I guess it's one of those things that some people don't even consider keeping their kids home those 2-3 days... And sometimes one mum tells one other and then they all get the same idea

I take kids out for holidays once a year max and just before Xmas didn't send ds in for 2 days because of the late school break up and him being so tired. However I know because of this I'd never join the PTA or board of governors. I would be a bit baffled by any one in such a position taking their kids out for holidays and think they weren't best placed for the role

@modgepodge i am sure most try to teach something right up until the end of term... Otherwise what's the point? This year the whole of the school had some kind of activities on the last day but I think it was only in the afternoon

@Mazuslongtoenail until I became a parent governor I had no idea who they even were... So definitely couldn't say if I'd come across them being a bellend more than the next guy 🤣

Sometimes it is easier to just lie and say they're not well!!

@HNY2024 i agree this government doesn't like it with the following rules.... But I feel like that's a whole other post 🤦🏼‍♀️

@Pinkpoppiesandaduck oh my goodness. That seems like a lot of extra work for them. I know school do visits but only if it's persistent absence /safeguarding concerns... I think

@tsmainsqueeze this is the thing, definitely there is more to life than school. I guess from the hypocritical part if I were to do it, I woild feel a bit of a hypocrite but then that said I wouldn't judge others for doing what suits their financial or family situations.... Definitely others on the board would, but we don't know individual reasons for the absences, and we don't know who the 'offenders' are

@Thatswhy11 this is the thing, the fine isn't much of a deterrent and like you say is a money making scheme rather than supporting education. I guess just thinking where the HT said they always refer to the LA for fines just got me thinking why.... It's like a bunch of sheep toeing the party line I think 🤦🏼‍♀️

@TurkeyTwizlers i think mental health is very important and I hope she gets the support she needs from the school ❤️

@Onelifeonly this is the thing it's a government policy across the whole country, where we live in a multicultural society, yet a one size fits all approach is applied and enforced.

I know it wouldn't look good if 'I' don't uphold a policy, but then again I have to factor in the family needs like anyone else does

@Onelifeonly but I agree that is the children with safeguarding issues that they are concerned about. Although from experience anyone can suddenly develop safeguarding issues overnight

I absolutely detest the idea of fine for absences. They make absolutely no difference to families who choose to take children in holiday and gladly pay the fine and they make no difference for children who have chronically low attendance, of the type that significantly impacts their education and wellbeing.

I recall seeing a FOI request made to multiple LAs once that suggested it actually costs money to administer fines. So I don’t think it makes the LA money. I also suspect it creates bad feeling. I’d be surprised also if there was any evidence of an impact on children with chronically low attendance.

It absolutely infuriates me that LAs that often let down children with disabilities or school
avoidance also fine parents for children having a de days off for a holiday.

Oh if I were you I would take the holiday. I know loads of teacher who have to work by policies of their schools but really couldn’t care less if a child is out for a couple of days.

Yes, every school I’ve worked in has done lessons right up til the end of term, perhaps with one or two fun activities thrown in too. But even those may be curriculum linked eg we made Xmas decorations in the last week - but it was sewing which is on the national curriculum, and I won’t teach it again so those kids absent have just not covered that part of the curriculum. But often the justification given on here for missing the last few days is ‘they’re doing proper lessons anyway’ which is not always the case.

@anothernamechangeagainsndagain but sometimes it's the practicality of the holidays.... For example kids finishing school on 22nd December, and the family want to fly to Australia to celebrate Christmas with family? Not only is the cost enormous but they're barely going to make it in time, it's not always a question of taking different holidays when it's family you're visiting

I don't like anything to do with attendance. Of course, we want children to be at school, learning. But not to the detriment of absolutely everything else.

I don't like attendance rewards or statistics being read out in assembly. Any of it.

@Muchtoomuchtodo when you say you were a parent governor, is it that you left or were 'fired' because of the absences? Or just that the children left the school?
Here (england) they have the policy not to authorise any term time holiday

@Justrolledmyeyesoutloud obviously I can only speak for my school. My school want to know where your child is and I wouldn't lie because after 3 days the staff conduct a home visit. The drama seems to be blown up on MN. My neighbours school authorised 2 weeks off for 2 of their daughters. I've taken DS out of school around 3 times. Never had a fine.

I think fining varies massively between LAs, some are flexible and others militant. It’s one of the postcode lottery things.

@Bladwdoda the fines annoy me too, like you say it likely costs them more money to administer them. I get it if they worked as a deterrent... People thinking they will get fined and not doing it... But that seems like trying to scare everyone into submission. I think for me the scary thing is if they go with a more serious fine or imprisonment but I understand it to be that's only for repeated offences and do forth. And as you say the LA do so much to let children at risk/special needs down 😔

I'm a teacher that has taken my kids out for one day when inset/holidays for me weren't the same as the kids.

The fines is a separate issue.

The national attendance dip post covid isn't holidays, it's more odd days from lots of kids. When previously kids would have been sent in, now they're allowed to stay at home. Parents were given the message education wasn't important and now that's coming home to roost.

@QuillBill thank you! Yes I detest the awards for attendance thing. It's a school policy I don't agree with. So so many children are sent into school when they are poorly.... Because parents either don't care, or don't have ability to stay home and look after them.... Those kids infect their friends... Who then stay home and miss out on perfect attendance but the patient zero kids get the awards

So many parents now take dc out 2 or 3 days before the holidays that the price gouging starts earlier.

Personally I need to cover school holidays so I don't have enough leave as it is without taking dc out of school for an unauthorised week.

I do one or 2 days max before breaking up once a year for the last 7 years. Sadly this is less worthwhile now as the prices jump in that time. I only do it to get a slightly longer holiday.

I don't ask permission and I don't lie. I just phone in and say they won't be in for next 2 days.

Can you speak up and say you don't approve the policy but understand its government led?

Because integrity is pretty important? It's not a race to the bottom because some at the top don't heed the principles.