Page 3 | To wonder how one avoids becoming a toxic MIL

FrenchToastLover · 2023-12-30T17:55:16+00:00

Both on and offline I'm frequently hearing of all these horrendous mil/dil relationships, the majority of the time putting the mil in a bad light. I know that when you're only getting one half of the story it's easy to judge when you may not have all the facts but even so, why are so many of them so shitty? I have 2 boys myself so it's likely I will have a dil in the future and obviously right now I think I will do my best to be a good mil but surely they all think this? I guess I'm just wondering why in so many cases it seems impossible for both parties to just get along?

Surgarblossom · 30/12/2023 19:45

Orangebadger · 30/12/2023 19:15

There are many lovely MILs. I think most toxic MILs are toxic mothers. I know of one with the loveliest son and DIL. But she is a nightmare and has always been like that. The sons are use to it, the DIL is not and it's quite a shock!

The fact that you are concerned about not becoming one says you almost certainly won't. Toxic people have very little self awareness and are usually pure narcissists.

Do, so true..

Almostwelsh · 30/12/2023 19:46

Die young.

TheWillowTrees · 30/12/2023 19:48

SarahAndQuack · 30/12/2023 19:41

Oh, I'm sorry! I just read it in the context of her quoting my post. I didn't understand how what I'd described had anything to do with that.

Show quote history

I think she was agreeing with you that there are times to speak up- might be wrong though!

GirlsAloudReturnMadeMyYEAR · 30/12/2023 19:48

Honestly my MIL is SO lovely, but then I try to be aswell. For every nightmare mil there's possibly a nightmare dil. My mil is kind, spends time with us and has always accepted me for me, never imposed her way of doing things or who she thinks my other half ought to be with onto either of us and in turn I can be my authentic self with her. Equally I try very very hard to appreciate everything she does for us. If my oh does very rarely moan about her I never join in and will always treat her equally to my own mum especially when we have kids. I think we both have mutual respect for each other and I really love her.

CatamaranViper · 30/12/2023 19:49

I do have a theory based on nothing other than anecdotal evidence.

Men tend to pick women similar to their mothers in some way. Sometimes these similarities clash very badly i.e. both hot headed, both very dominant, both very independent, both matriarchal etc.
Other times the similarities complement each other i.e. similar sense of humour, similar interests, similar ambitions etc.

So let's say a bossy and controlling MIL meets a bossy and controlling DIL, of course they'll clash and the son will be the quiet "I'm not getting involved" type.

Obviously there will be men who purposely chose someone the exact opposite of their mother which can also cause issues.

Anyways, that's my theory

NachosAndCheese · 30/12/2023 19:50

Mine informed me I should be facilitating DH. And do all the cleaning.

BingoWings85 · 30/12/2023 19:50

The whole MIL thing is an area where my real-life experience is miles away from what I read online.

In real life I have many friends who adore their MILs, who have moved to be closer to them, who say they couldn’t cope without them, in some cases who are closer to them than their own mothers. It’s not the case for everyone I know but I’d say over 75% of my friends have either reasonably good or very good relationships with their MILs.

This might just be because my friends are generally nice people who’ve married nice men who have nice parents.

Online it’s a different story, but of course people don’t tend to post on here unless there’s a problem.

AnnieMare · 30/12/2023 19:55

Communication is key.

Remembering that all families are different and that that doesn't necessarily mean anyone is right or wrong. Only different. Different ways to do things, different experiences.

In my experience of being a MIL three times over, the easiest relationship is with my DS’s husband.
As a couple they treat me and my DS’s MIL exactly the same. It all feels very easy and relaxed.

millymog11 · 30/12/2023 19:59

I am divorced.

When I was married I did my very best to get on with my mother in law but some of the things she did annoyed me.

When I was first seeing my husband to be and living with him she came to stay with us for Christmas. There was no discussion between me and my ex H about whether or not she would come, she just came.

There were other toxic moments which I found quite difficult to navigate. We were on holiday and myself and MIL were looking at handbags in a leather shop - MIL asked me which one I liked and then promptly bought it for herself. I felt quite surprised almost like after the event I realised that this was a competition of some sort which I never even realised I was participating in. Weird.

Generally speaking we got on quite well and she liked me (I think) but after the divorce (my exH cheated on me and left me for someone else) she was suddenly absolutely vile to me. On one occasion my young daughter's comfort blanket was left at her house when our children were being looked after by my exH. I sent her a very short letter and some money for postage and asked her to send it back to me for the sake of my daughter who was upset and she refused to do that. Even if she didn't want to grant any wish I had made she could have done that for the sake of her own grand daughter.

AnnaMagnani · 30/12/2023 20:03

CatamaranViper · 30/12/2023 19:49

I do have a theory based on nothing other than anecdotal evidence.

Men tend to pick women similar to their mothers in some way. Sometimes these similarities clash very badly i.e. both hot headed, both very dominant, both very independent, both matriarchal etc.
Other times the similarities complement each other i.e. similar sense of humour, similar interests, similar ambitions etc.

So let's say a bossy and controlling MIL meets a bossy and controlling DIL, of course they'll clash and the son will be the quiet "I'm not getting involved" type.

Obviously there will be men who purposely chose someone the exact opposite of their mother which can also cause issues.

Anyways, that's my theory

I am absolutely nothing like my MIL

However I picked a man who was very very like my DF - good choice as my DF was lovely

Socksforxmas · 30/12/2023 20:18

mycatcontrolsmylife · 30/12/2023 18:08

This definitely isn't universal in any way but I think a fair amount of the women who go on to be nasty MILs have probably always had a bit of cruel streak when it comes to other women. There seems to be a pipeline.

Often they start as 'Not like other girls' who rejects anything viewed as feminine or girly in order to impress men. Then they evolve into 'Pick me girls' happily simping for any male attention even if it's at the disadvantage of other girls. Then when they have sons they become the 'toxic boy mum' already seething about the day another female dares to steal the heart of her precious baby boys who she gloms far too much emotional incest on to.

And then the cycle is complete when she becomes a MIL. After years of unchecked behaviour will now callously mistreat the vile woman who dared steal away her perfect angel.

Clearly this doesn't account for every situation, or even most probably, but it's a cycle I've oft recognised in many cases.

Love this post. Just my experience but every mil I've known in the real world who was toxic was once a toxic mother. There's always a lot of internalised misogyny with these women. And for the most part they always treat any sons in law very warmly 🤔

My own mum followed this cycle. I have 2 brothers and she definitely favoured them. I remember when my older brother was 16 he came home one day complaining about a squabble with his then gf and my mum went from 1 to 100 with how quickly she decided to label this girl as a 'bitch' 'skank' and 'slut'. (Would like to stress that this was a girl of 15/16)

To add to this, a lot of toxic mil's simply can't deal with the fact that the boys they raised don't want to put any effort in with them. My brothers were damaged in many ways as a result of her overbearing toxic 'boy mum' parenting and almost totally NC with her at this point. Of course this is all because of their evil, manipulative spouses.

Why question your own poor decisions when you can just make dil's the scapegoat huh?

VampireWeekday · 30/12/2023 20:22

I think the way to do it is to raise sons who are equal members of a household, so that when the time comes for your sons to have their own family they are able to advocate for your place in it. My MIL is great, and because neither of us consider household and childraising to be just my job, she has an equal relationship with my children as my own mother does. In general, make it so that your sons are the main link to their new family: advice, planning, visits, general check in, christmas cards should go through son and not DIL. Do not make her your son's secretary.

The only sticking point with my MIL is DP's weaponised incompetence with plans and arrangements, so that MIL feels like she has to go through me to plan anything. This annoys me but as MN is fond to point out, is more of a DP problem than a MIL problem.

SarahAndQuack · 30/12/2023 20:24

millymog11 · 30/12/2023 19:59

I am divorced.

When I was married I did my very best to get on with my mother in law but some of the things she did annoyed me.

When I was first seeing my husband to be and living with him she came to stay with us for Christmas. There was no discussion between me and my ex H about whether or not she would come, she just came.

There were other toxic moments which I found quite difficult to navigate. We were on holiday and myself and MIL were looking at handbags in a leather shop - MIL asked me which one I liked and then promptly bought it for herself. I felt quite surprised almost like after the event I realised that this was a competition of some sort which I never even realised I was participating in. Weird.

Generally speaking we got on quite well and she liked me (I think) but after the divorce (my exH cheated on me and left me for someone else) she was suddenly absolutely vile to me. On one occasion my young daughter's comfort blanket was left at her house when our children were being looked after by my exH. I sent her a very short letter and some money for postage and asked her to send it back to me for the sake of my daughter who was upset and she refused to do that. Even if she didn't want to grant any wish I had made she could have done that for the sake of her own grand daughter.

But then again ...

She came to you at Christmas. Perhaps it seemed natural to her she would come?

She asked your opinion on a purchase and took your opinion into account (I honestly don't get why you are offended here?! Still less why you say it is a competition? It just sounds as if you didn't realise she was asking for your opinion on a purchase, rather than offering to buy you something.

Jingleballs2 · 30/12/2023 20:28

Don't favour one grandchild (or set of grandchildren) over the other.

AnnieMare · 30/12/2023 20:32

Don't favour one set of grandparents over the other. .

ChatterMonkey · 30/12/2023 20:34

Be reasonable and dont be a dick..

İcantusethat · 30/12/2023 20:36

Just treat your DİL like a normal human? Respect them and get to know them.

I am fortunate to have a lovely MİL and a lovely DİL though!

Toucanfusingforme · 30/12/2023 20:36

I’m a mother of sons and have 2 DILs. I love both my DILs, but understand they have their own mothers so are unlikely to be as close to me as they are to their mothers, so I don’t expect it. We have a good relationship and I let them lead it- I don’t force anything on them but happily respond to anything they suggest. I’m aware that I was keen to pull my husband into my family as I (obviously) preferred them to his. Now the boot is on the other foot and I have a better understanding of my MIL’s position. So to all those mothers on MN with little boys who complain bitterly about their MILs, beware! You may well be the dreaded MIL in due course.
I think to have a successful MIL/DIL relationship you need to
a) accept that your son will put the DIL ahead of you. It’s what he should be doing.
b) Without being heavy handed, let your son understand that although he is a married man with responsibilities you still expect some consideration. There’s a balance to achieve between being a non complaining doormat mother and a possessive tiger mother.
c) If you live near enough, be useful. Then they actively benefit from contact with you.
d) If needed, see it a bit like a work colleague relationship. You may not have chosen to work with that person but it’s who you’ve got so you’ve got to make the best of it.

VampireWeekday · 30/12/2023 20:43

I remember one year in the run up to Christmas my BIL (DH's brother) was struggling because his wife was having a bad period of anxiety (I don't think they themselves realised this is what was happening to her at the time) and she was feeling really stressed about spending Christmas with our in laws and extended family. BIL was stressed about telling his mum (my MIL) because it had been a difficult year all round (pandemic times, serious illnesses, losing family members, list goes on), and some of us were travelling considerable distance to be there. MIL is very stoic herself and BIL thought she would think the wife was being ridiculous and put pressure on them to attend.

Anyway, when he did tell her about his wife, she basically told him off for stressing about it. She said: "You are a husband now, you need to prioritise your own family unit. It doesn't matter what the rest of us want or think about it, your responsibility is to your wife and what is best for her". It really stuck with me. I think this little piece of advice and the general attitude behind it is the core of being a good MIL, and now I think of it every time a family member makes a decision that I would previously have commented on.

millymog11 · 30/12/2023 20:43

SarahAndQuack · Today 20:24 it was not her coming to stay at Christmas it was the fact that my ex husband never even had a conversation with me about it before she came. Maybe that was my fault but you can see that me raising this is a topic to be discussed might be controversial.

On the handbag thing there was never any question she would buy something for me,we had both gone into the shop together in the spirit of "oohh lets look at the handbags, implicitly with the idea that we would each buy ourselves one. I would never have expected her to buy me one and I don't think she thought that either.

I guess I just cannot get my head around someone being your mother in law and the grandmother to your children one minute and then acting as if you literally do not exist on the planet the next minute.

IAmAnIdiot123 · 30/12/2023 20:45

Don't laugh about clearly abusive parenting decisions you may have made (ie, chucking all your sons favourite toys into the front garden because they are 10 minutes late home one day and then laugh that they were all taken)
My MIL is alright but I would never ever trust her to look after my children unsupervised. She tries very hard with me but I struggle to relax around her.

Catza · 30/12/2023 20:51

justalittlesnoel · 30/12/2023 18:17

Definitely what @mycatcontrolsmylife said! This is what I've seen most often tbh.

Added to that it's the mums who haven't taught their sons how to write cards / make plans / buy presents / keep in touch with family etc who seem to have the worst problems - because their son isn't self sufficient in those aspects of life, they either get a DIL who's happy to do all of that for their husband and it works out okay or they get a DIL who doesn't want to have that burden and everything falls down.

My DH was lovely but when we first met very much had been "babied" by his mum (purely because she loved him so much!) and it took time to unpick. Now he's great at all of those things and we've all got a fab relationship with the in-laws, but for the first year or so it was a bit of a struggle. I wasn't prepared to pick up all of that for him, he had no clue how to do it and it did fall down a bit. Now he's 100 times better and it's all okay, but there was a bit of pain to get there.

My partner’s ex (broke up 12 years ago) still texts him to remind him it’s his mum’s birthday. Cracks me up every time. Why do women take over a grown man’s affairs…

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 30/12/2023 20:53

My MiL is wonderful.

One of her ways is to say “So, what do they suggest for doing X now? When DH and BIL were young it was sleep on their front/wean at 4 months/feed on schedule and my MIL used to be horrified/amused/confused by it all.”

It was a brilliant way of her finding out what I was doing and why, but also I got lots of tips of how she did things without it coming over as “well we did…”

I think the main thing for me is that MIL treats me as a person. Not a part of her son or a womb for grandchildren.
in many ways she’s actually been the best person at treating me as me, not just as a mum

She and FIL also brought up very capable sons who witnessed a very equal household, which helped so much!

NalafromtheLionKing · 30/12/2023 20:54

Haven’t RTWT but I plan to genuinely welcome any DIL into the family as if she were my daughter and help her eg offering babysitting if they live nearby / with money to help get on the housing ladder and during those difficult days when the kids are small, mortgage is at its highest etc.

What I don’t plan to do is guilt trip her/them, give endless unsolicited advice or treat her as lesser eg as an afterthought when it comes to gifts.

minicheddars87 · 30/12/2023 21:00

I second the pp who said that the fact you're even thinking about how to be a good Mil is a good sign. Horrid Mil's don't just become that way the minute their son gets married. They were already horrible people so I don't think you have to worry unless you're currently toxic.