To wonder how one avoids becoming a toxic MIL

[FrenchToastLover]

Both on and offline I'm frequently hearing of all these horrendous mil/dil relationships, the majority of the time putting the mil in a bad light. I know that when you're only getting one half of the story it's easy to judge when you may not have all the facts but even so, why are so many of them so shitty?

I have 2 boys myself so it's likely I will have a dil in the future and obviously right now I think I will do my best to be a good mil but surely they all think this? I guess I'm just wondering why in so many cases it seems impossible for both parties to just get along?

My MIL is not toxic in any way and we got on really well pre children. I have to say though that I find our relationship more challenging since having a child and she winds me up now, which she never did before. I wonder if its a natural thing for the relationship to become more challenging as the pecking order changes somewhat when a new generation is born.

Treat your DS and DIL as autonomous adults, don't baby them, dial back the advice and well-meaning comments and have your own life and interests. Then you should be golden (unless you get unlucky and you have a genuinely unpleasant DIL).
I would also add it's really important for a MIL to take some responsibility for her own life and wellbeing, for example, planning your finances, taking care of your health as best you can and maintaining friendships so that you don't end up collapsing on top of your adult children and needing such a high level of support from them that it ends up jeopardising their marriages and finances. I say this as someone with an alcoholic widowed MIL who has made no plans for her retirement, financial or otherwise, has alienated most of her friends, and who refuses to seek any help for her drinking. The strain on my marriage is IMMENSE. I guess the TDLR here is just do your best to make sure your own house is in order if you want a healthy MIL/DIL relationship.
To be honest though, most of my female friends have perfectly good relationships with their MILs, the one I know who is low contact with hers is due to the MILs alcohol issues. I think you don't hear about the positive stories on here and you get a skewed view.

It starts with a DIL. There are plenty of toxic younger women. not that MN would accept
The DIL ages and becomes the MIL.
I often read the MIL threads and wonder what the reality actually is.

I like what a pp put - think what you wouldn't want your own MIL to do...and don't do it yourself.

Some additional thoughts based on things I've read on MN over the years:

• Accept your child's choice of partner
• Accept that you're no longer the #1 person in their life
• Don't give unsolicited advice, no matter how well intended
• Give the couple space and respect their boundaries
• Acknowledge that times have changed and thinking is different now, so what you used to do 20/30 years ago may not be recommended practice today
• Don't treat your child like an angel and blame their partner for any slights/wrongdoings
• Don't expect a DIL to do "wife work". Your son should be perfectly capable of buying presents/writing cards/etc
• If your sons are still young, teach them how to treat women with respect and pull their weight with household tasks
• Be welcoming to your child's partner
• Remember you are the parent, not their best friend/buddy. The DIL may not want to text or call you every day
• Hope to he'll your child doesn't marry someone who just hates the idea of in-laws with no valid reason.

There are many lovely MILs. I think most toxic MILs are toxic mothers. I know of one with the loveliest son and DIL. But she is a nightmare and has always been like that. The sons are use to it, the DIL is not and it's quite a shock!

The fact that you are concerned about not becoming one says you almost certainly won't. Toxic people have very little self awareness and are usually pure narcissists.

My MIL was great. She wasn't perfect but she and my FIL were always good to me after her son and I separated and made sure that my dd was always provided for. They also treated all their grandchildren as if they were the favourite.

I, for my part, never criticised my ex to them.

My DM makes lovely food so DH actually wants to go to hers for a Sunday dinner. However she doesn't make a scene about making the family's best roast potatoes
My MIL - thinks she's great, it's barely edible

My DM has a full interesting busy life, she's interesting to talk to (mostly) and actively values DH's opinion
My MIL - spends all day watching re-runs of Touch of Frost

It's not a surprise which of these DH would rather spend time with, let alone me.

My MIL suffers from a chronic empty nest syndrome. Her baby boy, an adult man in his late forty’s, is the love of her life. Accept, I’m his.

He is her youngest (she got also an older daughter) and she does indeed stil calls him her baby. He thinks she’s crazy too.

I find it really interesting how often 'accept your child's choices' appears in these discussions (I've seen a lot of them; I'm not meaning to quote/single out posts on this one). I can see how it might sometimes make sense. But, actually, I think this is really unhealthy. If you think your adult child has made a bad choice - or if you are worried about them, even if they've not asked for advice - I think it is important that you say that. I don't think it makes you a good MIL to just pretend you have suspended all capacity for judgment.

IMO it's all about how you communicate. Lots of people struggle to communicate with their own children, so they use the child's partner as an easy way out. So rather than saying 'son, I love you, but I honestly think your wife is wrong about x' they'll crab at the wife and alienate her. And of course it's the same with daughters-in-law in the other direction.

And then the cycle is complete when she becomes a MIL. After years of unchecked behaviour will now callously mistreat the vile woman who dared steal away her perfect angel.

This is exactly what happened to me. DH is the golden child, MIL has never been pulled up on her behaviour, by anyone

Ive had years of unwanted advice and opinions. Her way is best, she treats our house and any problems it has as mine and mine only. If it’s not clean enough for her liking it’s my fault, if it has clutter it’s my fault. And quite frankly, I’ve had enough.

All the things that @2Old2Tango says.

Plus:

MN mother in laws seem to have a peculiar propensity for bursting into tears every time they don't get their own way and also flinging themselves to the floor like a 2 year old having a tantrum.

Don't do this.

‘Don’t do this’. Brilliant. 😂

Posting bias.
People only post when they have a problem. So say 1 in 20 have a shit MIL, they likely post but the 19 with great ones don’t. So you’ll get like 90% of the posts about shit MIL, 10% saying how wonderful theirs is.

find it really interesting how often 'accept your child's choices' appears in these discussions (I've seen a lot of them; I'm not meaning to quote/single out posts on this one). I can see how it might sometimes make sense. But, actually, I think this is really unhealthy.

I think it probably goes without saying if the spouse or even adult child is abusive in some way, of course, you don’t accept it and just leave the adult child to it.

My MIL is wonderful. I literally cried on her shoulder when I had the baby blues. I guess not being possessive of your son is a good place to start. She genuinely welcomed me with open arms and viewed it as gaining a daughter rather than losing a son.

It’s a combination of things — gendered socialisation meaning that women are supposed to be the caretakers of family relationships, thereby meaning the DIL/MIL relationship is the pressure point of contact between the ‘new’ family and the birth families of both parties, with their unspoken different rules of life, communication etc. And women doing more of the small baby stage parenting puts them in the forefront of different ideas about parenting.

Add in very different personalities, a tendency to ascribe changes or perceived faults not to the son/husband, but to the woman he married, and some people’s appalling communication, insecurities etc, and it’s a potentially big flashpoint.

I get on great with my MIL and SIL gets on great with my mum. There's no secret to it, we are all just normal people. We don't have bizarre needs to assert our territory. Nobody has tried to so nobody needs to.

SIL and I are happy for all the GPs to be fully involved and none of them have ever tried to overstep it.

Also SIL and I have simular experiences and expectations of DH and my brother. That they are the lead in the relationship with their mothers and both of them are proper husbands and fathers who take a full and fairly split role in each of our homes.

Basically PIL aren't dicks, my parents aren't dicks, DH, DB, SIL and I are also not dicks. So there's no conflict set up.

Don't want to spend time alone with your son ever.

Do not listen to your son if he wants to talk about his life - certainly do not sympathise or offer advice.

Do not turn up unexpectedly, try to visit 'too often' or for 'too long'.

Do not offer unsolicited advice on any subject, however trivial.

Do not make plans that include them without checking first and giving a very long lead time. Plans may have to be flexible to ensure happy attendance eg changing meal times to accommodate children's food or nap times.

Do not share any anecdotes about your own parenting experiences lest this is seen as bragging, criticism or lying ('rose tinted glasses')

I'm not sure where I mentioned abuse?

There are plenty of situations where MILs may have different opinions from their DILs (or vice versa) without it being abuse.

My grandma has always been a very good example of how to be a MIL. She has three sons; she’s always said she knew how it would be when they grew up and she didn’t want to cause any trouble.

She accepted her role as MIL and grandmother and did that very well. She didn’t try to step on anyone’s toes. If she came over she sat and played with us gc; she didn’t try to do any cleaning or anything she hadn’t been asked to do. She’s good at listening; she makes conversation well, shows a real interest in what we’re doing, asks questions, and doesn’t give advice unless asked for it. she was also the fun grandma growing up, and my mum has an excellent relationship with her, independent of my dad.

You’ve misunderstood her comment, I think- she’s saying that as a mil you’d obviously speak up if your child was in an abusive relationship, not that having a different opinion is abusive.

I think people are unable to rub along together now in a way they used to. I remember my own mother (and father) rolling their eyes discretely at some of their respective MIL's statements , but that was as far as it went - there was no labelling someone a narcissist or boomer, just an acceptance that this was the family you'd married into and family was more important than some petty disagreement or disagreeable statement. There was less controlling behaviour all round, so things would be said but not really an expectation that things would be acted on. No one would dream of cutting someone off entirely, and certainly not for something they'd said. Old people thought they knew best (sometimes they did), young people thought they knew better (sometimes they did), but everyone took as a starting position that everyone meant to do the best for the grandchildren.

Reading the MIL threads here, there are a great many DIL who sound like total pains in the arse, and I worry about their children given how controlling and perfectionist they appear from the threads they start, although sometimes the MIL sound awful too.

Oh, I'm sorry! I just read it in the context of her quoting my post. I didn't understand how what I'd described had anything to do with that.

Oh, but you know that what you think was 'rolling their eyes discreetly' is exactly the same as what's happening now, right?!

Every generation imagines they've invented tact and restraint in inter-generational relationships. And we all have to admit: no, if we're rolling our eyes, we look like rude children. And that's how humans have interacted - likely, since the Stone Age and before.

I don’t think it’s a general mil problem per se.

My ex- mil was the loveliest woman imaginable. She thought I was an angel who had saved her son from prison - it annoyed be that she didn’t give him credit (he’d never so much as shoplifted chewing gum 🤷‍♀️) but I understood what she was getting at because I helped him out when times were hard for him. I loved that woman as if she was my own mother and she loved me as if I was her own daughter.

My current mother in law thinks I’m the devil incarnate. I’ll go with the other’s opinions if I have to pick.

Current Mil is a bully. Not just with me. She has damaged her son irreparably and I won’t take her shit or pander to her ego but I’m clever about how I let her know I won’t accept it. She even tries bullying my mum about things she thinks she ought to be sensitive about whenever she sees her but my mum just laughs it off, she knows what she’s like. She’s just awful. And yet sil’s husband is the most wonderful human being alive and his family are glorious blah blah.

It’s just different people and personalities. Sons and husbands aren’t possessions and perhaps if the mothers stopped seeing them as such (or their partners) then there would be fewer run ins.