To not want to put up with manipulation from MIL?

[confusedma]

Every time MIL doesn't get her way she will call DH "just to check how we are" and "accidentally" cry. So she'll call but be all quiet and sad. DH will ask what's wrong, "oh it's nothing, I don't want to burden you with it", DH will persevere, "nothing, I'm just sad with how things are between us but I don't want to go into it and trouble you" then suddenly bursts into tears and reveals that how she envisioned being a grandma isn't matching her experience and it breaks her heart.

• she's sad that she doesn't get listened to enough. She told me to continue breastfeeding till 2 years and I stopped at 1. She told me to take my baby outside less in cold weather but we still spend loads of time outside (wrapped up!)
• she imagined she'd be able to pop round whenever to ours to see her grandchildren but I've recently asked her to contact me and ask before coming (she cried to DH the evening I politely asked her to arrange in advance and cried every time I've said "not today as I've got plans, but maybe later this week?")
• her heart breaks that she isn't being asked to babysit but instead we've got a paid nanny (I find it easier with a paid person because there are clear instructions, nanny follows them, whereas MIL often dismisses my ideas by saying "ah that's just a first time mum way of doing things" or "no I think we should do it like this" so I highly doubt she'd follow instructions). Although she sees her grandbabies at least once a week! Just with me and / or DH present.

DH falls for it every time, gets genuinely upset that we've upset his lovely mother when "all she wants is what's best for us".
He has a younger sister, SIL (she's 26, DH is in his early 30s) who will do literally everything mum tells her even though SIL is an adult. To the extent that MIL says "oh I don't like this on you" and SIL won't wear it again. Or SIL had a boyfriend she really loved, we met him and all got on, she seemed so into him. Then MIL met him and said "you can do better" so SIL left him. DH isn't quite as obedient as SIL and never has been but you get the family dynamic - MIL rules the roost.

I think @mamacorn1 has the right answer. people like your Mil will very rarely change, you will be spending your time and energy on getting her to change.

She's welcome to see DC when they're with the nanny! They very rarely are - the nanny babysits in the evening if there's a date night (but normally just puts baby to bed or babysits after baby is in bed) or on a rare occasion if I have a last minute doctors appointment when DH can't work from home.

OP what is your relationship like with your own DM? Women tend to be closer to their own mothers, point out that MIL will have all things she wants when her own DD has children.

I'd say good enough relationship with my mum! She visits probably as frequently as MIL but she doesn't interfere. She comes when invited happily or sometimes might say she's in my area on Thursday, would I like to meet? If I say I've got plans then the conversation goes no further. She's never called me crying about frequency of visits.

@JingleSnowmanTree @ifIwerenotanandroid not working, she kind of became a SAHM and then never went back to work

Your H is a big part of the problem here. Your requests and boundaries are reasonable: ask him to respect them.

MIL’s behaviour is U and manipulative.

@Guavafish1 - nonsense, she’s not entitled to those kind of expectations, they are unreasonable. Why is she expressing views on breastfeeding for example? She’s a similar age to me and I still work full time and have my own life. I wouldn’t dream of behaving like this.

Her persistence about being able to drop in as she wants rather than when you both (you and your DH) want, just adds to her being able to push your boundaries.

She is sounding more and more like the woman in the "Don't Rock The Boat" adage that was posted on Reddit some time ago. I know I posted it on a different thread recently (in the past few months) as someone else was having similar issues with their Mother in Law but I can't find it at the moment.

I'd actually retort to my DH "Why do you believe that your mother's requests to see our child are more important than my availability? I've already said that she is more than welcome to visit on Tuesday. We all have plans until Tuesday. The kids are not available for her until Tuesday. Please pass this along to her."

You do have a DH issue where he is not seeing your position as equal to that of his mother, otherwise he would have said "Mum, @confusedma has already said that you'll see the kids on Tuesday. We are busy with things until then. Please understand and respect that." (or words to that effect). He isn't. He is trying to placate her which is riling you up.

Or you could try pulling the same sort of stunt on your DH that she is. Just in reverse, but don't forget to add in the tears and leave him utterly confused as to what to do, then you swoop in and make things right by putting in easily enforceable and respected boundaries that you can manage without causing issue. At the moment they are not being enforced because it's easier to placate his mother. Make it easier and better for him to placate you instead!

Maybe you should try the tears when mil tries changing your plans or interfering (only semi joking) and see what response you get from your husband?

or ask your husband why your mil ‘s opinions are more important than yours?

I think this is part of the problem: she hasn't got anything to occupy her, & is looking to you to provide it. I had this with a retired aunt. She saw me as entertainment to fill her days & it was awful until I got her interested in something for herself which took off even better than I'd hoped & filled her time & her mind ever afterwards.

Maybe when she cries to DH you could try this tack. Sympathise & say his DM must be lonely & bored with nothing to do all day, & tell him to encourage her to find a hobby or do some volunteering or something. Make her the problem (which she is) but in a nice way which leaves you & the baby out of it. It might work, or you/he might get a lot of 'yes, but's back. Might be worth a try, though.

If you wanted to go down a nastier route, you could wonder if it's a sign of depression that she's always crying, & suggest shoving her down the medical route. Just the threat of that might make her stop.

Edited for a spelling error

The issue here is that your husband has been conditioned by his mother to only listen and respond to emotional manipulation. He is not hearing you because you are not speaking the language he understands. She has taught him that women are only serious if they are emotional and upset about something, so as long as you are being calm and reasonable (and, based upon what you said about her overruling you with your own child, a doormat) he just isn’t going to listen to you or take you seriously. It’s shit and completely disrespectful, but it’s what she’s taught him.

Unfortunately you’re going to have to fight fire with fire if you want to change the dynamics. I actually think you should hit the roof with him. Unleash all of the hurt and upset she’s been causing. Let yourself be upset and cry, especially since that’s what she has conditioned him to respond to. It will probably shock him as it seems like you just bottle everything up and allow yourself to be walked on. Make him realize how hurtful it is when he acts like he’s married to his mum and you’re not important.

In order to change his mindset you first have to get him listening to you instead of her, because right now he just doesn’t care. Get in the habit of being demonstrably upset each and every time she oversteps instead of hiding it and internalizing. Eventually you can help him see how unhealthy and manipulative his mother’s form of communication is, but first you have to be his closest, most primary relationship. Right now it sounds like she is.

Secondly, how dare she undermine you with your own child. Find your indignation at her, and your hurt at him for not supporting you. You are the mother, not her. You get to decide. If she puts another layer on after you said not to, immediately remove it and say “I said no.” If she tells you she’s going to keep your child up later (!!), take your daughter and say firmly “No. It’s her bedtime now. I do not want her kept up late.” Then, when she goes to manipulate your husband with her whinging, beat her to it. Ask him why she is so critical, why she orders you around, why won’t she let you be a mother? Doesn’t she understand how important it is to be a mother?

It will be a process, but you can change him if you really commit to it. Having to emotionally manipulate one’s own husband just to get him to listen to and respect you seems extremely unattractive to me (and honestly would probably be a dealbreaker) but it’s completely understandable to want to salvage it for the sake of your family. Good luck, OP.

As a Granny to be I find some of the posts about MIL really odd. I am nearly 60 yet the things I see on MN suggest MIL are much older, the problems being similar to what my generation experienced.

Does MIL work? Is she in a relationship? Just wondering if she is lonely or feels unimportant? I.admit, I'd be upset if my DD paid for a babysitter if I was free. Are you sure all your rules are necessary? Us MILs did manage to raise you without killing your generation.

If I were your MIL I would stop visiting you both and go low contact, get lots of hobbies or take on more hours as she obviously isn't needed or wanted. Hope you don't need her in the future. You sound Very controlling.

Why not get DH to take the DC to MIL for a couple of hours every few days. You can have free time to catch up or relax.

@WhichEllie when she tries to overrule me, I do tell her firmly "no" and things happen my way, not her way - so that's not the issue here. In the end my daughter is only as wrapped up as I think is necessary and goes to bed when I want her to (and before anyone worries for why it isn't DH making that decision - he also isn't the one dealing with the consequences of an overtired baby or a baby out of her routine).

The problem is MILs reaction and emotional manipulation.

@SALWARP2023 he works and really wouldn't be practical by the time he gets home as both need to eat and go to sleep. She lives about 40 mins away and he works long-ish hours

The thought of anyone, including my own mum, just 'popping in' whenever they want makes me shudder!

She's late 50's & hasn't worked since she had children.

'There's a very henpecked FIL who has had years of being told she's always right and he just sort of agrees with everything she says or doesn't comment, presumably to make his life easier.'

You can click on 'see all' on any of the OP's posts to see them all (saves RTFT).

OP's MIL would probably be 'wanted' & 'needed' if she didn't constantly emotionally manipulate & demand 24/7 access to someone else's house & baby.

Oh, & not killing your own children is a pretty low bar to set.

Sorry if i mixed this up with another post.

@SALWARP2023 she's not in a relationship, not married, I think just very bored and expects to be at ours whenever she likes. Doesn't like to be told "no I'm busy"

It's a bit of a complex situation tbh she's married to FIL officially but on and off separated. Currently not with FIL but they tend to be on and off

You're handling it all very well. Unfortunately you need to leave the manipulation with DH. He's your problem. She's his mum. He can take the heat and tell him you don't want to hear about it. She doesn't get to ruin your life as a young mum just because she's bored, lonely and has nothing in her life.

I would suggest when she rings and begins to cry etc and your DH tells you simply reply to him "oh no not AGAIN.. this is becoming more and more frequent whats up with her now? On second thoughts I dont want to hear it as it will all be my fault as usual "do not wait for a reply from him let him sit with your comment and think about it. I think you have tried most options here Op the only one left is indifference.
I would also suggest NOT arranging a weekend day with DH and the little one.The reason I caution against this is it will become a regular thing more or less straight away which will lead to more problems further down the line. The one day YOU want to go somewhere it will be knocked on the head as it will have become MIL special day and she cannot be let down as its unfair...Hence guilt trip back on you. Just somethings to ponder on from my point of view.

You sound like OP’s MIL! And just as manipulative. I suggest you ask your DD what she would like from you and do as she asks, or you will alienate her quite rapidly

I think its too much time on her hands op I see it with my own mother. But your husb should stand up to her more. I had to point out we do work and busy. They in their own bubbles.

Is it worth making sure every time she makes a call like this she waits longer to see the baby again?

Eg - calls DH to moan you can’t see her until Tuesday. You reply ‘oh great - if she can’t do Tuesday I can meet up with Sarah/go to the hairdresser/try out this new class. Let me just book it and I’ll sort a new time to see her the following week’ and then immediately pick up the phone and send a text/email/call to book yourself out on the date you had previously offered.

or - calls DH to cry you don’t take her advice/let her visit without plans. ‘Yes we obviously both feel very strongly about this and we are clearly both too emotional to discuss this rationally. Let her know we can see each other once we both feel calmer - I don’t want us to fall out’.