Partners mother overstepping just doesn't stop! Long one ...

[Mamasperspective]

So I have a 15 month old and I'm about to give birth to my second in a couple of weeks.

At about 4 weeks pregnant, we decided to tell partners parents and closest members of my family as my bump was quite prominent early on. A week later, we had a conversation with partners mother around boundaries (my partner spoke to her first then I reached out to her to try to explain our reasoning)

Partners mother was a baby hogger with my first born and I didn't feel confident speaking up. She also visited CONSTANTLY and consequently I ended up with post-natal depression. I felt like I couldn't bond with my baby because someone else was constantly holding her. She would also always refer to LO as 'her' baby. When asked to pass baby back, partners mother would say "No I will not"

She had been feeding my first born chocolate from 6 months old when I wasn't present. She did it once in front of me at about 7 months old and was asked not to (doctor had said no chocolate/processed sugars as this made her constipation worse and gave her anal fissures). She continued to do it anyway until we had the final boundaries conversation.

I asked her not to constantly talk about brain aneurysms as I found it very upsetting, especially being pregnant. Her sister had a brain aneurysm and recovered so I would hear in detail all about it repeatedly. She knew my mum had died of one a few years before and she knew it was the most traumatic experience of my life.

She would constantly voice awful insults about her husband and how unhappy she was in front of my partner which really upset partner because he loves his dad.

Anyway, she was asked to stop all of the above (in a very respectful way) as we were expecting again and didn't want the same scenario with the next baby. She was REALLY passive aggressive, took zero accountability and played the victim because she was so hurt and I had (quote) knocked her off her pedestal.

I have been rewarded with 8 months silent treatment (almost the entire duration of this second pregnancy)

In total I have reached out to this woman on 4 separate occasions for us to sit and talk and move forward but she is not interested at all and either shuts me down or doesn't respond. Quite covert narcissistic behaviour. I have mainly done this for my partner's sake as he hates the conflict.

He has taken our LO round to his mothers once a fortnight for a short visit (on the understanding he is to be present for the duration of the visit) because he says 'It's his mum' and 'that's just the way she is' .... I hate that someone who can be so emotionally manipulative is around our daughter but it's his daughter too so I just have to sit and suffer through the anxiety. I've asked him to speak up for me and while he has 'talked' to her and tried to convince her to apologise, he won't stand up to her and tell her that her behaviour is completely unacceptable, again because 'it's his mum'

Despite not speaking to me, his mother sent money for my birthday (end of October) with a card. I asked my partner to return it saying that, I was grateful for the kind gesture but that I couldn't accept it under the circumstances until we had had a conversation. She refused. She has sent a Christmas gift and money round and I have messaged her expressing the same message. She read my message and ignored it. Maybe it's the cynic in me but I feel this is done to try and make her look 'reasonable' in everyone else's eyes. Either that or she expects me to rug sweep which will never happen.

Before we fell out, I had a few long conversations with partners mother over Christmas ornaments and how I used to buy one for my mum every year. I explained how sentimental this was for me and that my cousin had asked if she could buy my daughter an ornament every year. I said that I had explained to her this is something I would rather keep between my daughter and I as it was really important to me. Partners mother decided to buy my daughter an ornament last year (which I kind of understand with it being her first Christmas) but lo and behold, has bought her one this year too and written her name and the year on the back. I also expressed how excited I was to buy my daughter her first snow globe which I wanted to save for this year when she was a bit older to enjoy it - his mother bought her one first.

My partner and I had discussed wanting to get married but the only thing making me say no is his mother. I feel deflated and like I don't have a voice anymore and it's negatively impacting my relationship with my partner because the topic keeps cropping up and he says just to accept who she is. It's had a huge negative impact on my pregnancy and the guilt I feel is next level as I don't know what will happen going forward and feel awful bringing another child into the world when I feel like partners mother could potentially cause my relationship to deteriorate.

An outside opinion would be very welcome. Please don't be too harsh as I'm about to 'drop' in 2 weeks lol.

Congrats, OP, on your second DC being on the way soon!

You will have to ignore a significant proportion of PPs on this post as they clearly have never experienced a toxic person at this level. You mention covert narcissism and though obviously we cannot diagnose, her behaviour is very much in line with that. I really feel for you. You are a good mum and a good partner and this is a very difficult and complex situation.

Trust your instincts. I also believe that she remembered about the snow globe and did it on purpose. Anyone saying you are being OTT on that is assuming that that your MIL is a normal rational person with good intentions. She has shown repeatedly that she is not.

I also feel for your partner. People saying that it's a DH problem are kind of right in that he is enabling her rather than supporting your boundaries and protecting himself, you and your DC. However, when you have grown up in that toxic dynamic it is very difficult to see the wood for the trees. Saying it is 'just what his mum's like' is a coping mechanism for him. There is a great podcast you may have heard of called Insight, which is run by two experts in helping adult children of narcissists and I have found it immensely helpful in dealing with my own narcissistic in-laws. I would recommend you listening to it to gain coping strategies and see if your DH is open to listening to any particularly relevant episodes.

It is extremely concerning that she continued to give your DC1 chocolate against you boundaries AND specific advice from the GP. I can understand why you are anxious when letting your DH visit with DC1. I would consider whether you can trust his ability to protect her in that situation as his judgment is compromised around his mother.

Regarding returning the presents, you are absolutely right, it is both to preserve her image with others and to tempt you into rug sweeping. You were right to return them and ask instead for a conversation. It was not childish behaviour at all - you did it respectfully and for good reason. We have done similar for the same reason.

Wishing you all the best. Just to reiterate, you are not in any way over-reacting. This is not about just not getting along. It is a huge huge red flag that so many people are NC with her. Please filter out the messages from those who are measuring your MILs behaviour against that of a rational, decent human being. This is different.

@DeeCeeCherry partners mother has (now) been told that I will be exclusively breastfeeding this baby, at least for the first few months. As a couple we want to see if we can avoid the digestive issues we have had with LO (#1) and also because partners mother and others were baby hoggers so I suffered with post natal depression the first time and felt like I wasn't bonding with my baby because others constantly held her and (in the case of partners mother) flat out refused to hand her back, even for a feed, nappy change or for us to leave at the end of a visit so I'm also doing it for my mental health. Consequently partners mother needs to be open to a resolution or partner will not be able to take the baby without me (he can still take LO). Partners mother was prevented from meeting one of her other grandchildren for 6 months (not due to breastfeeding, just because of her behaviour) but I'm not preventing her - she has a choice in how she wants to move forward. LO apparently gets fussy and unsettled at partners mothers house but she still goes anyway once every 2 weeks for partners mothers sake (which again, makes me feel guilty if LO doesn't enjoy it)

OP, you’ve already won the big battles.

Your DP takes your dc to his mum once every fortnight. That’s a huge win, as you now no longer have daily visits from MIL for the past 8 months.

I don’t know why you’re now stressing over ornaments and snowballs? Just keep them in the attic or throw them away.

You risk alienating your husband completely if you keep sending him as a flying monkey to your MIL. You complain when she visits and complain when she doesn’t visit. You’re setting boundaries about the new baby when it’s likely she won’t even come to visit the new baby and will wait for her son to bring the baby to her.

Just take the gifts and ask DP to send on a thank you message.

It sounds as though the situation you have with MIL now is perfect. She is maintaining contact with DC while your DP is there supervising her. So what if she is radio silent with you? You at least don't have to hear the nasty or thoughless things you couldn't stand.
I would leave the status quo as it is to be honest. Send a thank you text if she sends a birthday card and let your DP visit her.
If it means you have your new baby, congratulations btw, spending less time with her thats for your DP to hear her complaining about, just look after yourself.

AreYouReallyOK has it.
Too many dramatic big conversations. Don't sweat the little stuff such as snow globes and Xmas ornaments . Avoid her when you can. Be firm about important stuff. E.g hogging the baby. Encourage partner to visit her with kids as this means you font have to see her. Stop sending back gifts if you don't want the cash put it in an account for the kids.

@Mielbee your message has really made me feel heard, thank you. I understand that some may feel I am being too much on this thread but I'm simply trying to be as open and honest as possible to get honest responses in return, based on all the information (and not an edited version). I have studied psychology previously myself years ago so recognised some of her behaviours and researched them more (I follow 'Mind Positive' on Facebook and her videos are amazing)

To avoid further arguments with partner (we've almost split twice over the topic of his mother and his refusal to advocate for me how he usually would in any other situation) I just have to closely monitor LO's mood and bowels whenever she comes back from a visit and I always ensure all LO's foods are in her changing bag. I hate having to worry about these visits but there's nothing I can do. In contrast, my family is so respectful and supportive and always say, "Is LO allowed this' or if she cries for any reason they say to her "Go to your mummy, it's ok" so LO feels really settled and happy around them, I just can't understand why his mother can't be the same. LO is starting to form words now and, when she can talk, if she ever expresses she doesn't want to go to his mothers, she will not be made to go.

I just have to closely monitor LO's mood and bowels whenever she comes back

From a bit of chocolate? I can see why your DP doesn’t engage with this nonsense.

It’s clear you’re looking for an opportunity to stop him taking dc to see his mum.

If she's giving you the silent treatment, just enjoy it.
Some of the things you're upset about are valid, others are silly and a bit petty. I can see how once someone has really annoyed you, every little thing then gets on your nerves.
But you do need to step back and stop trying to control this woman. She's taken your hurt on board and is now keeping a distance. But she can't win with you as you're returning gifts and dictating that she needs to have yet another conversion with you where you will tell her off again (as she perceives it).

@BananaSpanner

You say you’ve reached out to her but then you’ve also refused two gifts from her. Surely if you wanted to open communication, it would have been better to thank her and go from there.

All this ‘DH problem’ stuff that people quote. Most people wouldn’t cut off a parent just because they had a difficult relationship with a spouse.

PART QUOTE
but agree
Why send the cards back if you want to have a healthy relationship?
But childish - my way or the highway
My mil was difficult
I called her out - every single time.
My dh was a bit (ignore her) but then we'd get letters - which I just threw straight in the bin.
Things was over the years we've both learned how to rub along , and I will miss her when she goes....
Boundaries- and breathe.

@Ktime I know I am full of hormones at the mo and not the most rational. I am a huge overthinker and, when partner brought the gifts from his mother, I saw it as an attempt from her to look reasonable in front of DH (I've seen how she acts when she has been NC with others) when she could have just carried on like normal with us respecting the NC between us. I immediately messaged and said thank you and that we needed to have a conversation and she ignored me (so why reach out with a gift?)

I think this is because she's fully aware baby is due any day now (I've learned over 5 years that there's generally an ulterior motive with her) so I'm thinking ahead that there will be pressure for me to allow partner to take newborn without me (I will be ebf so that won't be possible and I will get the health visitor involved in that conversation if necessary).

Partner has agreed his mother won't meet the baby while I am ebf but I know she will start creating drama and I am fully expecting him to change his tune to pacify his mother.

Again, me overthinking but I have learned a lot from experience during this relationship.

I just can't be bothered with the drama, it's too much and I can't live like this for years going forward with all the conflict and avoidance, it's changing the way I see my partner which is heartbreaking as our relationship has always been amazing. His mother has just been dead against any rules or boundaries re our daughter and doesn't seem to realise this isn't her child and she has no entitlement to her.

You need to relax a bit, I say this from personal experience as I was a bit like you with my first. Draw the line where necessary but don’t worry about smaller things such as the snow gloves and ornaments. I agree that at 6 months it’s a bit too early for chocolate and it’s disrespectful of mil to go against your wishes on this but unless there are underlying medical conditions a little chocolate won’t affect anyone’s mood…

I say this as someone whose mil insisted on feeding my children Nutella for breakfast, she literally snapped at me and exclaimed ‘poor children!!!’ In front of them when I asked her not to. We have type 2 diabetes in my family and I want to give them healthy eating habits for life, but I’ve had to relax around my PIL for the greater good. Family relationships are important too

Your husband has had the chat about boundaries and now they need to be enforced. So when she meets the baby and you say I’ll take the baby now if she says no you walk over and take the baby. If she won’t hand the baby over you communicate clearly, that is my child and you will give them back to me now or leave my home. When she tries to feed the baby inappropriately you say you’ve been asked not to feed the baby that, I’ll take the baby now and you repeat the above. She might initially rebel but when she’s been removed from the home a few times she’ll soon learn that actions have consequences and will hopefully amend her behaviour. It might also help your husband to realise how frequently his mother is pushing boundaries and watching you challenge inappropriate behaviour regularly should highlight that.
In terms of your relationship with your mil now I’d accept any sign of an olive branch but you’ve reached out plenty and can leave it with her now to do so if she wants.

@Ktime I'm only going by the conversations from 3 GP appointments, I can only do my best to follow medical advice from a doctor because I'm not medically qualified.

The doctor also said chocolate is dangerous for LOs as it can cause jitters and heart palpitations in babies/young children (due to levels of caffeine in chocolate that adults can handle but young children cannot)

His mother was feeding her full bars of chocolate (Freddo sized) and the GP said to stop immediately. It's all been documented in LO's medical notes.

I'm really not here to argue if chocolate is ok for children or not, just following what the doctor has said to me.

Surely anyone who is not the child's parent should be asking what it's ok to feed their child anyway? My family always asks? And if you're told something is causing harm, you would stop without question and not just carry on?

She sounds a bit of a nightmare but, so do you in some ways.

Both very controlling. Wind it back, OP.

But that should be between him and his mum

That wasn't normal then either!!

Difficult as he's the baby's father. He gets a say too

@Kitkat189 There ARE underlying medical conditions - OP's DC had anal fissures.

Is that your husband's sister or sister-in-law?

Are they not with the child's father or in contact?

Cross post

Why don't you have contact details? Surely your partner sees his daughter?

Trouble is you are being OTT/controlling about quite a few things eg ornaments etc but the stuff about her DH is not your issue, just let your partner deal with that.

Regardless about whether people agree with the chocolate thing it is your decision what you feed your children so she should respect your boundaries, you have more of a DP problem than a MIL problem though, if he won't stand up for you then you should be remaining NC. If you can trust him to take the DCs there once baby is old enough and that he won't allow her to feed a baby stuff you don't want her to then let him take them, no need for you to get involved.

I assume you haven't read the whole thread. Including the part where the DP lets his mother do harmful things to the DD because she had raised her own kids. But that's OK by you then.

Of course if he is not going to stop his mother doing such things she has to step in to prevent her kids being harmed because he is too scared of mummy!

.

I’m going to suggest that the partners ex wife had the mark of your mil long before, and as such wouldn’t let her daughter be in the company of her.
His other brother and wife also knew what she was and is like and distanced themselves.

Time for the wool to be removed from your eyes, for your partner to also see his mother for what she is and if your relationship with him is to continue, that she doesn’t feature in it.

Sorry but just by being their father does not give him a say when it comes to harm being done to the child!