Grandparent/step-grandparent not to let granddaughters in to use loo and refresh after long car journey to see them?

[LondonMum79]

So, I think this is unreasonable behaviour from grandparent/step-grandparent but my husband thinks I should suck it up for the sake of our daughters (age 6, 7, and 9) having a relationship with their grandad.

Grandad is not very involved. He and my stepmother live 1.5hrs away from us but haven’t visited us in over three years, and he only sees his granddaughters if I drive them to his door.

Grandad made contact to ask Christmas plans, and after a bit of back and forth it was arranged that we (myself and the three girls) could drop in on Boxing Day, to break our journey on our way to visit a relative further across the county.

It wasn’t too long a drive - only an hour and a half - but enough that when we arrived, the girls all needed the loo, and I’d been running around since 7am to beat traffic heading out of London so I really needed a cuppa. My dad came out into the driveway to meet us, but then headed us off away from the front door and announced that we were all going on a walk right there and then.

My six and seven year olds protested, saying they really needed to use the loo, and they were allowed in a side door (it’s a big country house) to use the guest loo. That’s when my stepmother appeared and tried to get us all out of the house again, but the little one asked for a drink and made it clear she didn’t want to go on a walk, she wanted to get warm and settled after the long car journey. There was a bit of back and forth about this, and eventually the littlest one was allowed to sit and have a drink whilst grandad marched the others off for a walk.

When they got back we were offered tea and Christmas cake, exchanged presents etc, before my stepmother asked if we’d like another cup of tea “for the road”, which I took as my cue to get back on the road.

Later on, I told my husband about it, and he totally minimised the girls’ discomfort around not being straight away allowed to just have a wee and relax after the long car journey, and said “Well, at least they’ve seen their grandad” - like I’m the unreasonable one for thinking that behaviour like this suggests putting a boundary on visits to this grandparent.

It’s things like this all the time with this particular grandparent: the childrens’ needs are never put first. My husband always makes excuses for my dad, and makes me feel unreasonable for saying that the girls’ dignity and comfort should be the priority, and if drawing this boundary means they see their grandad less then so be it. My husband thinks we must accept the terms offered by my dad & stepmother in order for the girls to know their grandad. I just think their terms are unreasonable - keeping us outside the house after a long journey to see them, for example - but I’m being made to feel the unreasonable one here: ‘Just smile and be nice and take what they can offer you’.

Like other posters I am confused abiut what the issue was. The kids were allowed to use the loo. Who cares which loo and which door? Why is it so important that you go in the front door?

And the kid who didn't want to go on the walk, didn't go.

Walk sounds nice to me after a long drive and a thoughtful thing to do

This is totally unreasonable behaviour by the GPs.
Everyone should be able to use the toilet when they need to - to deny it can cause UTIs and lead to anxiety around going to the toilet particularly in younger children.

I would say something in my next conversation with the GP.

• you may not have realised at the time but when we arrived at your house & you were reluctant to let the girls use the toilet and seemed to want to keep us our of your house it made me and them feel uncomfortable and unwelcome.

We would have preferred to sit down with a drink for a chat and all of us been able to go to the toilet. Then we would have been up for a short walk before continuing with our journey.

How they responded to that statement would then drive my future interaction with them.

You're stating how their reception was perceived & felt by you and how it could have been better; you're not even rejecting the walk but saying we want to engage with you when we visit.

If they get angry or treat you as being demanding or unreasonable then pull back. If they accept what you're saying then see what the next visit is like.

Just because people are related to you it doesn't mean you have to facilitate relationships where you are treated badly. You need to demonstrate this to you girls in your actions

Why are you bothering with these people?

He sounds clueless and as though he begrudges spending time with you all - as though it’s more of a duty.

Do you know where this comes from? Was he like this with you? Do you think it’s that he or your DSM have a sort of phobia about having young people in the house or is it more that he’s deliberately trying to keep you all at arms length?

I can see your DH’s point of view to some extent. Although it was begrudging, you were allowed to use the loo. Your DF had thought of an “activity”, even though it wasn’t the one you wanted. You were offered cake and a drink. Going along with it isn’t going to hurt your DD. It exposes them to people with different ways of doing things, a different perspective, which can be really good, even if it just gives them something to contrast the rest of their lives with. If the reason for them keeping you at arms length is discomfort with young children, it has the potential to improve as your DDs get older. And even if it’s always like this, it isn’t something that dominates their lives, it’s just an oddity tacked in occasionally.

I don’t think it’s something you have to do, it sounds like your own relationship with your DF is strained and that could be enough to want to stop trying all by itself. But what you’ve described doesn’t sound like it would be damaging to your DDs and it keeps the doors open for something better in the future.

As an anecdote from my own life - My PiL have very different ways with kids. My MiL is brilliant with younger DC. She engages with them and gets them involved, listens to all their jokes, encourages, praises and cheers on all their efforts. But as they become teenagers she doesn’t know how to draw back and give them some space. She keeps up the uncritical praise in a way they find embarrassing and cringy. They don’t want her around if any of their friends are there. They block her on social media so she doesn’t make embarrassing comments on all their posts. FiL was bloody useless when they were little. He couldn’t was bored of them. Limited his time with time. Feigned interest poorly. He’d have quite liked a visit where we went straight out on a walk then came back and had tea and cake before leaving (he might have disappeared during tea and cake). But as they’ve grown up he’s become an incredible asset. He talks to teen DD1 endlessly about physics and maths, he shares music with teen DD2, he coaches them and jokes with them. He gives them the space they crave and doesn’t embarrass them in front of their mates. This may or may not be your DF, you will know him better than anyone here. I’m just pointing out that relationships can change over time, especially with children.

Your girls do not know their grandfather - or, what they do know of him is that he has exceptionally little interest in them and his dw is mildly hostile towards them and appears to want no relationship at all. I am not entirely sure why you all step around this obvious fact. It’s certainly not worth tolerating for the sake of your children, as the relationship is pointless to them, but why is it not worth it for you? And why is your dh so invested in it when he can’t even be bothered to go there with you himself?

Yes that would be unreasonable but from your description they were allowed to use the loo, your youngest wasn’t expected to go on the walk and you all went in the house afterwards to have refreshments. So all that happened was that you dad presumed you could all go straight out on the walk after the hour and a half journey when you actually needed the loo and a drink. When this was pointed out you got the loo break and a drink? Who cares which door you use to get in?! Yes it’s slightly rude to presume all your guests want a walk. Id guess they were thinking the girls would be hyper if they’d just got out the car (are they energetic children?) and didn’t want them charging around indoors. As guests yes they should probably have done whatever your preference was

I don’t get this, they said they wanted the toilet - they let them use it.

Said they wanted a drink - got it

You were on a journey so of course you’re heading off - one for the road - after tea, cake and presents is hardly an obscene thing to say

I’m with you here. Interestingly, my sister has a ‘garden’ loo which can be accessed from the side door, meaning people in the garden don’t need to traipse through the house when they’re outside. It’s not the ‘staff’ entrance 😂.
Also, when my DGC come over and I’ve planned a walk we often go straight out rather than settling in the house. The OPs kids had been cooped up in a car for 90 minutes, they didn’t need a sit down to rest FFS. They needed a run around. Methinks the OP is being a tad precious here.

Just stop seeing them. They don’t care about you or your children and you are teaching your girls to be sweet to people who want them to be uncomfortable. I’m guessing as you talk about a big house your DH wants you to keep contact as he sees a pay check in the future….

Eh? He didn’t deny them, they used the downstairs loo. Perfectly reasonable if you ask me.

The first two sentences are exactly how I feel/felt about my paternal grandfather. He made/makes no effort, thus I make no effort either. He turned down an invitation to my wedding because his ‘wife was working’ (this was not a last minute invite and she works in retail, it would have been perfectly easy to arrange cover or come alone). He’s currently unwell in hospital and I feel nothing.

My thoughts exactly!

Have the kids left the loo in a state before??
Can’t think of any other reason to forbid use of a loo!
Bizarre behaviour.

I voted YANBU, but if there is a substantial inheritance at stake, I think your DH has a point. I wouldn't cut off contact. Yes, it's odd and sad that the children's grandfather doesn't seem that interested in maintaining contact, but nothing that happened on this visit was serious enough to warrant breaking contact, IMO.

What's the back story? Is the stepparent your step mum, did she come into the picture later on when you were all grown up? Do they have any other grand children or have no idea anymore how to behave with children? How's your relationship with your dad? Any siblings?

Based only on what you've written it's horrible behaviour and i wouldnt make any effort anymore

I wouldn't bother. They do not want to see you and will not offer basic hospitality i.e. to use the loo. Just let them get on with it rather than teach your DDs that they have to suck up rubbish from your distinctly unwelcoming parents.

OP it's hard without further context to know how unreasonable they are.
Grandparents forget what small kids are like and so perhaps just never occurred to them that they'd need the loo.
Using the guest loo seems totally normal to me and if the side door is the most convenient for accessing the loo then again I wouldn't take offence at that.
Clearly they are not comfortable with kids in the house. What are your kids like? I had 2 extremely boisterous boys and some of my relatives were quite overwhelmed at times with them. My mum included and it was sometimes quite stressful for all concerned at her house with her fretting over her nice stuff and worrying they'd break something. Even if you think your DC well.behaved maybe the step mum isn't used to small kids and struggles with them in the house or both grandparents don't know how to play with them or what to say so a walk seems like the best alternative.
Im just trying to see if there's a reasonable explanation for their behaviour. What does seem to be true is that you can't really talk to your dad about it. That's the real issue. If you can't articulate why you are uncomfortable with the situation then that's the real issue. Maybe time for a heart to heart with him?

@LondonMum79

The issues with your dad & stepmum aside, I'd be concerned at my husband's attitude that his children should accept crumbs from anyone's table, let alone their grandfather's!

What is his relationship like with his own parents/grandparents? Would he have accepted this behaviour towards his children from his own family? Was/Is he the 'low man on the totem pole' when it comes them or are they generally just a 'not hospitable' family? I'd also be concerned that he may start to exhibit this same attitude himself at some point, or perhaps already does. I certainly wouldn't want my children to feel they weren't deserving of the basic courtesies from their family or that they/their children weren't welcome in our home.

As far as what happened at your dad's, you have a 'Granddad problem'. I assume it's his house as much as it is his wife's so unless there was a seriously good reason making them use the guest loo and refusing to let you all into the 'main part' of the house, he was just as rude as she was. I don't know if I'd go as far as 'official' NC, but I'd certainly put the 'burden' of visits on your father in future. If he wants to see your DC, he can come to you.

I dont understand why you wouldn't just say "the girls were looking forward to a loo break and a drink, they won't want to go on a walk"

Why is using the guest loo and side door a problem?
They probably imagined a visit will be "stretch the legs" and than go inside.
Maybe there is a back story, maybe it is just misalignment

I'm with @ChocolateCinderToffee - I bet they had other guests there, hence the bizarre order of a walk as soon as you arrived and going through the side door for the loo. The question would be, who did they not want you to see/meet or visa vera. Perhaps they felt put out by the fact it was a pit stop before driving on to meet other family. Unless you ask, you won't know.

Your OH can’t win here. He’s better off staying neutral.

What’s it to your husband if you and the DC have a relationship with your dad/their grandad? He wasn’t there, it’s not his dad, and so why is his opinion anything relevant to you? Make your own mind up. You know what the right answer is. Stop being treated badly by these men.

What did you say? It's like you are a bystander? If I'd driven all that way and my kids needed a wee old say. "Sorry Dad, we don't really fancy a walk and the kids need a wee and then just walk toward the door. If he then said we couldn't go in I think I'd be getting in the car and never going back. Do you have trouble being assertive with your Dad and your husband?

Does your husband get something out of the trips?