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Original poster

The Home Secretary "jokes" about spiking his wifes drink with Rohypnol

387 replies

cakeorwine · 24/12/2023 09:41

As the other thread has been automatically hidden

"James Cleverly has apologised for joking about spiking his wife’s drink with a date rape drug in comments made at a Downing Street reception.
The home secretary’s remarks came just hours after the Home Office announced plans to crack down on spiking, when someone puts drugs into another person’s drink or directly into their body without their knowledge or consent.

Cleverly told female guests at the reception that “a little bit of Rohypnol in her drink every night” was “not really illegal if it’s only a little bit”, the Sunday Mirror reported.
He also laughed that the secret to a long marriage was ensuring your spouse was “someone who is always mildly sedated so she can never realise there are better men out there”."

So much to say about this

Home Office | Politics | The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/home-office

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 24/12/2023 11:03

This is not a freedom of speech issue.

It is very much a suffer the consequences issue.

Londontown12 · 24/12/2023 11:04

whatsitcalledwhen · 24/12/2023 10:02

Private conversations and messages?

He said it at an event. A Downing Street event. In his role as Home Secretary.

Hours after making a statement promoting anti spiking measures.

How is that the same as a civilian's private conversations and messages?

Show quote history

This 100% !

SerendipityJane · 24/12/2023 11:05

A Downing Street event. In his role as Home Secretary.

That we paid for.

beastlyslumber · 24/12/2023 11:05

RainbowZebraWarrior · 24/12/2023 11:00

OK, so you believe in freedom of speech. Great.

But in relation to this specific issue, you either think that what he said was wrong, and that there should be consequences, or you don't.

Show quote history

Is that so? Who decided those are my choices of what to think? Could I not think what he said was 'wrong' in some respect but that there shouldn't be consequences? Could I not think that there should be consequences, but not the ones that you think there should be? I'm pretty sure there are many different ways to think about this issue.

However, I answered above what I would hypothetically do if I were Sunak. I think that broadly answers what you're asking me here.

whatsitcalledwhen · 24/12/2023 11:07

@beastlyslumber

What if he'd joked about transwomen using women's bathrooms? Do you think he should lose his job over that?

If the party line is that they should be allowed to use women's bathrooms, he was actively working on measures to make this happen and he joked about it, I think he would be suspended at minimum yes.

Why do you keep using trans issues as an attempted gotcha? It's quite a strange thing to do.

You asked me my thoughts on your example. I've answered.

Yet I asked you for your thoughts on an example and you said "Well, first of all, he didn't make any of those 'jokes'."

So I'll ask again:

What if he made a 'joke' about black people being abused in police custody hours after announcing measures to reduce racism in the force?

What if he made a 'joke' about physically disabled people being easier to sexually assault hours after announcing measures to reduce the abuse of disabled people?

In these two examples, do you think he should lose his job?

The problem is that you can't argue for removing someone's freedom of speech without risking your own. It's annoying, because it means that you have to defend idiots and awful people sometimes. But it's the principle.

I agree in the right to freedom of speech. I also think he should lose his job for what he said while exercising his freedom of speech.

You keep suggesting the two beliefs are mutually exclusive and that if people believe in freedom of speech, they shouldn't believe he should be sacked. You can believe both things are true without those two beliefs clashing at all.

Dontcallmescarface · 24/12/2023 11:09

I guess all those defending him would have no issue if a male boss of theirs had made the same comment in public? You would all be happy to work with a man who held that view? If I was working on Cleverly's team I'd want his fucking head on a plate.

SerendipityJane · 24/12/2023 11:10

Literally no one on this thread has argued for removing freedom of speech. So anyone who is arguing against that may have clicked on the wrong thread. It happens.

What almost everyone on this thread is arguing is that the deeply unpleasant Mr. Cleverly faces consequences for how he chose to use his freedom of speech.

And I emphasise "chose" there. He didn't give this speech tied to a radiator as a proof of life video did he ?

beastlyslumber · 24/12/2023 11:10

I agree in the right to freedom of speech. I also think he should lose his job for what he said while exercising his freedom of speech.

You keep suggesting the two beliefs are mutually exclusive and that if people believe in freedom of speech, they shouldn't believe he should be sacked. You can believe both things are true without those two beliefs clashing at all.

Interesting @whatsitcalledwhen . So you don't think that being sacked for making a joke is an attack against your freedom of speech?

So what is the basis on which you think Cleverly should lose his job? Not because of what he said, okay. What then?

ru53 · 24/12/2023 11:11

Jimmy Dimly as John Crace calls him…

It is mortifying that these idiots represent us on the world stage. This current iteration of the Conservative Party is beyond scraping the barrel. We need serious, competent, professional politicians for serious times.

OdeToBarney · 24/12/2023 11:11

notthatthis · 24/12/2023 10:09

Sacked for what? He didn't commit a crime.

Show quote history

Newsflash: people get sacked for all manner of things that aren't a crime 🙄

DeeCeeCherry · 24/12/2023 11:11

It's Christmas so it'll be forgotten about soon.
In breaking news, women will still vote Tory because 'at least they know what a woman is'. He was comfortable in what he said because there'll be no comeback

Justrolledmyeyesoutloud · 24/12/2023 11:12

Not RTFT but isn't his wife ill with cancer? He is my local MP unfortunately

SerendipityJane · 24/12/2023 11:12

So you don't think that being sacked for making a joke is an attack against your freedom of speech?

What planet would you like to live on where there are no consequences for your actions. We should sent a probe there. (Probably an anal probe)

SerendipityJane · 24/12/2023 11:12

Justrolledmyeyesoutloud · 24/12/2023 11:12

Not RTFT but isn't his wife ill with cancer? He is my local MP unfortunately

Sadly reminds me of Boris previous wife.

whatsitcalledwhen · 24/12/2023 11:14

beastlyslumber · 24/12/2023 11:10

I agree in the right to freedom of speech. I also think he should lose his job for what he said while exercising his freedom of speech.

You keep suggesting the two beliefs are mutually exclusive and that if people believe in freedom of speech, they shouldn't believe he should be sacked. You can believe both things are true without those two beliefs clashing at all.

Interesting @whatsitcalledwhen . So you don't think that being sacked for making a joke is an attack against your freedom of speech?

So what is the basis on which you think Cleverly should lose his job? Not because of what he said, okay. What then?

I believe he had every 'right' to make such a disgusting joke. As you say, freedom of speech means we can say what we want.

I believe he should be sacked for what he said while using his right to free speech. Because there are consequences to the words he chose to use.

Why are you not understanding that those two beliefs aren't mutually exclusive?

GothConversionTherapy · 24/12/2023 11:15

This government is the biggest group of pigs I've ever seen. I wonder what the reaction in the room was.

beastlyslumber · 24/12/2023 11:16

What almost everyone on this thread is arguing is that the deeply unpleasant Mr. Cleverly faces consequences for how he chose to use his freedom of speech.

Nah, that's just semantics.

"You have freedom of speech. Unless you choose to use it in a way that we don't like." That's not freedom. That's a threat.

I do agree that speech can have consequences. But I think those should be natural consequences based on what you've said. You make a stupid joke, you get humiliated by your friends. You make a joke that offends people, the media expose you for being a dickhead. I think that's all fair enough. People can then discuss the issues and decide what they think. More discussion of this particular issue is not a bad thing, as clearly there is little public understanding.

Sacking someone because their speech is considered 'wrong' goes way beyond fair consequences. You're attacking not only his personal freedom of speech, but creating/reinforcing a culture in which everyone understands that saying the 'wrong' thing could cost them their career.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 24/12/2023 11:16

beastlyslumber · 24/12/2023 11:05

Is that so? Who decided those are my choices of what to think? Could I not think what he said was 'wrong' in some respect but that there shouldn't be consequences? Could I not think that there should be consequences, but not the ones that you think there should be? I'm pretty sure there are many different ways to think about this issue.

However, I answered above what I would hypothetically do if I were Sunak. I think that broadly answers what you're asking me here.

Show quote history

I see we crossed posts, and you detailed your thoughts in an another response, thanks.

I'm not telling you what to think or what your specific choices are, but you answered that with your other post, so no worries.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

OP posts:
whatsitcalledwhen · 24/12/2023 11:18

@beastlyslumber

You also cut off a section of my post where I asked your thoughts on a question, as I responded directly to your version of the same question.

I think you thought your question would be a gotcha or I'd wriggle out if answering it. But I didn't, I answered directly.

It would be great if you could do the same.

Here it is again:

I asked you for your thoughts on an example and you said "Well, first of all, he didn't make any of those 'jokes'."

What if he made a 'joke' about black people being abused in police custody hours after announcing measures to reduce racism in the force?

What if he made a 'joke' about physically disabled people being easier to sexually assault hours after announcing measures to reduce the abuse of disabled people?

In these two examples, do you think he should lose his job?

SerendipityJane · 24/12/2023 11:18

Pleased there's such a spread of views here. Someone has to be devils advocate.

Original poster
cakeorwine · 24/12/2023 11:19

GothConversionTherapy · 24/12/2023 11:15

This government is the biggest group of pigs I've ever seen. I wonder what the reaction in the room was.

I do wonder.
Especially as it was a group of female journalists.
And he is a man of power and influence.
I wonder if they spoke about it afterwards?

OP posts:
Charlie2121 · 24/12/2023 11:19

ru53 · 24/12/2023 11:11

Jimmy Dimly as John Crace calls him…

It is mortifying that these idiots represent us on the world stage. This current iteration of the Conservative Party is beyond scraping the barrel. We need serious, competent, professional politicians for serious times.

Edited

You’d better hope that Labour don’t win the next GE then otherwise you are going to be seriously disappointed.

whatsitcalledwhen · 24/12/2023 11:20

@beastlyslumber

Sacking someone because their speech is considered 'wrong' goes way beyond fair consequences. You're attacking not only his personal freedom of speech, but creating/reinforcing a culture in which everyone understands that saying the 'wrong' thing could cost them their career.

I'll ask again because as mentioned, I directly answered when you asked my thoughts on your example so it would seem fair you do the same.

What if he made a 'joke' about black people being abused in police custody hours after announcing measures to reduce racism in the force?

What if he made a 'joke' about physically disabled people being easier to sexually assault hours after announcing measures to reduce the abuse of disabled people?

In these two examples, do you think he should lose his job?

ofestivetree · 24/12/2023 11:20

Should be arrested

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