The Home Secretary "jokes" about spiking his wifes drink with Rohypnol

[cakeorwine]

As the other thread has been automatically hidden

"James Cleverly has apologised for joking about spiking his wife’s drink with a date rape drug in comments made at a Downing Street reception.
The home secretary’s remarks came just hours after the Home Office announced plans to crack down on spiking, when someone puts drugs into another person’s drink or directly into their body without their knowledge or consent.

Cleverly told female guests at the reception that “a little bit of Rohypnol in her drink every night” was “not really illegal if it’s only a little bit”, the Sunday Mirror reported.
He also laughed that the secret to a long marriage was ensuring your spouse was “someone who is always mildly sedated so she can never realise there are better men out there”."

So much to say about this

"Losing your job is a punishment and it's a silencing tactic. And it sets a precedent. Now you can say something that others find offensive and lose your job, too."

Reputation matters. As well as a workplace - unless you are happy with a culture of rape jokes in a work environment, a school environment.

Why do jokes have to be offensive?

Safeguarding material for schools advise that we need to move away from the culture of ‘it’s just banter it’s fine’ and ‘boys will be boys’. You seem to think males should be allowed to continue doing that @beastlyslumber. what about racist jokes/comments are they okay?

Yes. People whang on about Freedom of Speech without seeming to realise there can still be consequences to your choices of words!!

It's not a total absolvement of any comeback to what you say, as some would like it to be.

OMG! So that's what that other post was about. I was actually r* when I was 18 because of rohypnol. I'm in my 40's now and it's still very triggering to read that. I didn't know I could be any sadder about the state of this world and now here we are. That person is the lowest of low. Also you know they say there's a bit of truth in every joke so that really makes you wonder how low.

Right. And when a woman says something horrendously offensive, like 'men can't be women' or 'I don't want to see males in women's prisons' then that's her right as long as she accepts the consequences that she may lose her job, lose her income, have her reputation destroyed, be dropped by the companies she works with etc. Aka 'cancel culture'.

It's the same thing. If you're against cancel culture when it happens to people you agree with, then sadly you need to stand against it when it happens to the people you disagree with, even the people you really dislike.

He's the Home Secretary. In a party where several MPs (or former MPs) are suspended/under investigation/have been arrested/have actually been convicted for rape, sexual harassment, child sexual abuse, and assault.

But I'm glad to see they all take it seriously.

I imagine the media narrative will now be spun that accusing him of being a misogynistic twunt will be not so subtly painted as an invasion of his privacy (coz we forced him to mention his wife in public) and now it's the nasty wimmin that are hurting a fellow sister.

Or something like that. The media caring for women is like a dog preaching.

That's her right.
And a company has a right to think about the culture of its workplace
A brand has the right to drop someone they don't want to be associated with.

@beastlyslumber

What if he made a 'joke' about black people being abused in police custody hours after announcing measures to reduce racism in the force?

What if he made a 'joke' about physically disabled people being easier to sexually assault hours after announcing measures to reduce the abuse of disabled people?

Would you honestly think he shouldn't lose his job then?

If not, why are women fair game when it comes to 'jokes'? 'Jokes' about raping them?

You have a pretty low bar for standards in public life if you believe that the only reason anyone should ever get sacked is because they have committed a crime.

Jokes don't have to be offensive. No one said they did?

No, racist jokes are not okay. Neither are sexist jokes. I never said any of these things are okay with me. I'm very much against racism, sexism, homophobia etc. I also agree that schools and other places should try to move away from 'banter'.

What I don't agree with is that the only way to improve society in this respect is to remove our freedom of speech. In fact, I think there's good evidence that policing speech in this way makes these issues way harder to deal with. We need more conversation, not less.

I wonder what kind of culture Sunak wants to have in his Cabinet?
I hope that he gets pulled up on this by people who know him

agree. I have a fairly dark & sarcastic sense of humour. Maybe I wouldn't make this exact sort of joke but can imagine making one SOMEONE would find
offensive/close to the mark. So I tend to self-censor myself and only bring out that sort of humour when I'm with close friends/family that get it.
i.e. not in a work meeting!
I wouldn't ever make that sort of joke in a work meeting, and I'm not a member of the government.

I definitely wouldn't make that joke in a work meeting if I was the Home Secretary with the ultimate oversight of the justice system in the UK, which has an appalling record of convicting rapists (including date rapists using sedatives!)

So if you were Sunak, what words and actions would you take when the Home Secretary, responsible for law and order, makes a "joke" about spiking to a group of political journalists, thinking it was off the record?

Apart from the comments, it shows incredibly poor political judgement.

As Seargeant Wilson would say "Do you think that's wise, Sir?"

Well, first of all, he didn't make any of those 'jokes'.

What if he'd joked about transwomen using women's bathrooms? Do you think he should lose his job over that?

What if he'd joked about tories being strung up, should he lose his job over that?

The problem is that you can't argue for removing someone's freedom of speech without risking your own. It's annoying, because it means that you have to defend idiots and awful people sometimes. But it's the principle.

He isn't some random making a stupid joke. He's the HOME SECRETARY. He cannot say things like that. It shows a level of misjudgment that makes him unsuitable for such high office. And not that long since he called some town a shithole. Nothing will happen though, the standards of the current government have too low v

"A spokesman for the home secretary said: "In what was always understood as a private conversation, James, the home secretary tackling spiking, made what was clearly meant to be an ironic joke - for which he apologises."
A source told the BBC he did not recollect the exact wording he had used, because it was a private off-the-record event, but recognised that any joke along those lines was inappropriate - which was why he was apologising."

He clearly lacks awareness

So if you were Sunak, what words and actions would you take when the Home Secretary, responsible for law and order, makes a "joke" about spiking to a group of political journalists, thinking it was off the record?

In a world where politics matter you would do absolutely nothing as the resignation letter landed on your desk.

A world where the populace has lost all respect for the institutions of government is an ungovernable world. And Very Bad Things happen in ungovernable worlds. Certainly enough for a Netflix comedy special.

Sadly I very much doubt it.

No, I don't think it's wise. If I was his boss I'd be concerned about his judgement, yes. I would think he was very stupid, and he would be reprimanded. Maybe given some media training. Maybe given some education on the criminal use of rohypnol and the effect on victims.

I mean, I'm not Sunak, so it's hard to answer. I imagine he may well bow to pressure and axe the guy.

I'm a woman who thinks that free speech is an incredibly important right for women to retain and defend, so my answers are based on that.

OK, so you believe in freedom of speech. Great.

But in relation to this specific issue, you either think that what he said was wrong, and that there should be consequences, or you don't.

Somewhere there are a pair of advisors pissing themselves laughing. Another strike for team dump Rishi.

I wonder if they got the joke from Farage ? I would look to see if he looks any more smug than usual this morning. But that's an exercise in the futile.

Ewwww.

He joked about raping his wife each night and making sure she is too drugged to realise he's abusing her.

If she's just undergone treatment for cancer, there's a likelihood that she has been taking medication such as pain relief, anti anxiolytics or antidepressants and antiemetics to get her through the process. And he could be joking about that being a good thing because it makes her easier to rape and not realise how awful a human being he is. As the saying goes, many a true word spoken in jest.

Hope she's OK and is 'just' married to a moron, rather than a rapist.

I have no doubt that the response would have been different if he had made a joke about transwomen. In fact, he would probably have got a lot of support.

Just like racist jokes would have got a lot of support a long time ago.

Firstly, jokes are supposed to be funny.

Secondly, he's the Home Secretary. There are certain things he shouldn't ever be joking about - certainly not in a public/professional arena.

He knows the facts and figures. He should be so concerned and outraged by what he knows that the subject is sensitive to him. He should be pulling other people up for making those jokes not making them himself.