The Home Secretary "jokes" about spiking his wifes drink with Rohypnol

[cakeorwine]

As the other thread has been automatically hidden

"James Cleverly has apologised for joking about spiking his wife’s drink with a date rape drug in comments made at a Downing Street reception.
The home secretary’s remarks came just hours after the Home Office announced plans to crack down on spiking, when someone puts drugs into another person’s drink or directly into their body without their knowledge or consent.

Cleverly told female guests at the reception that “a little bit of Rohypnol in her drink every night” was “not really illegal if it’s only a little bit”, the Sunday Mirror reported.
He also laughed that the secret to a long marriage was ensuring your spouse was “someone who is always mildly sedated so she can never realise there are better men out there”."

So much to say about this

He's unfit for office and unfit to be responsible for the police and for law enforcement.

I simply believe that freedom of speech is a more important value to protect

Which comes with responsibilities and accountability.

No one was censoring him. He was free to speak as he did. However, now he has, he has to own it. And that's the bit of "free speech" people seem to struggle with. By all means, say what you want. In the same way I will use my freedom of thought to hear it.

In this case I have. And the so-ironically-named-it-hurts Mr. Cleverly is a spectacularly dim misogynistic incompetent specimen of distilled privilege and very little else.

Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences. You can absolutely say whatever you what in whatever space you want. However, sometimes what you say might lead to consequences. I suspect this shows a lack of judgement, tact and awareness of what's appropriate which does bother me with someone in a position which requires sensitivity, calmness and judgement.

@beastlyslumber

People should not lose their jobs because of the things they say, even if you find them offensive or disagree.

Even if they are Home Secretary?

What if he made a 'joke' about black people being abused in police custody hours after announcing measures to reduce racism in the force?

What if he made a 'joke' about physically disabled people being easier to sexually assault hours after announcing measures to reduce the abuse of disabled people?

Would you honestly think he shouldn't lose his job then?

If not, why are women fair game when it comes to 'jokes'? 'Jokes' about raping them?

So where is the line then, Beastly? How offensive does someone have to be for you?

Great. Another "joke" from the Tories. The misogyny and rape culture runs so deep with them, they are oblivious to it.

No, I'm not 'okay' with misogyny.

I just don't think that the way to stop misogyny is to stop people's freedom of speech.

If anything, we have seen this silencing and policing of speech used way more against women than against misogynists.

Do I think people saying these sorts of things helps schools tackle misogyny? No, I do not. I also do not think that curtailing freedom of speech helps schools tackle misogyny.

There's never a simple answer. It would be great to say, no one can make a shitty joke that offends women ever again without being severely punished. But the unintended consequence of that is, that we all lose our right to say things that others find offensive. And that is not a price that I am willing to pay.

This is why it annoys me when people say 'these politicians are all the same'.

The Tories are the only party that "know what a woman is", right?

Every day I think they cannot possibly get any worse, and every day I'm proved wrong.

Too right.

He won't get the sack even though he absolutely should. Misogyny is still so grossly acceptable, and I'd say even more so with our current political party. Both at a political level and in general; we simply don't challenge it enough.
I doubt his wife will leave him either.
Where's the accountability?

@beastlyslumber No one least of all James Cleverly is having their freedom of speech eroded. He has the right to say whatever he wants and there will be no legal repercussions. People are merely pointing out that there should be a consequence to his actions, given that he we should expect those inn the highest roles in government to have good judgement, decent values and promote the upholding of the law and parliamentary standards in all that they do.
He's clearly not a bright man. He's also joking about something that is illegal and morally reprehensible in a public place whilst representing the role he's appointed to. This wasn't at home, or down the pub with his mates...
It's staggering utterly staggering to think that anyone would think this ok.

The whole affair makes me think about how little we as women settle for in our political representation.
Women face all kinds of inequalities and discrimination, despite being the majority in the population.
And yet again and again our politicians minimise and deprioritise our issues.
We have to demand and vote for better, or else our lives won't improve.

Say what you want.

But if you are a celebrity and say something that others find offensive, don't be surprised if brands and shows drop you.

If you are a school pupil, don't be surprised if you get suspended.

If you are an employee, don't be surprised if you face action.

If you are a politician, don't be surprised if you get sacked.

The line for me is incitement. Someone telling others to cause harm, burn something down, rape a woman etc.

Jokes, opinions, arguments - they may be horrendously offensive, but we must have the right to express our views and speak freely.

So how do you propose tackling misogyny in schools then @beastlyslumber?

The line for me is incitement. Someone telling others to cause harm, burn something down, rape a woman etc.

I'm old enough to remember when politicians were still held up as role models ....

Yes this. Just shows how little this government truly value the safety of women and girls. Sickening.

And he has that right.

And there are consequences.

If this was a celebrity, he would have been dropped from shows and brands would not want to be associated with him.

And that is their choice.

I have a public facing role. If I said something like this at an event I would have to resign/be sacked for bringing my organsiation into disrepute.
Vile thing to joke about. My friend was gang raped after being drugged. It destroyed her and her children's lives.

I cannot WAIT to have Yvette Cooper as Home Secretary.

The two of them are worlds apart.

MN we need a ‘no thanks’ as well as a ‘thanks’ button please. Would be incredibly useful here.

Yes, I'm not opposed to their being consequences for speech. But those consequences generally being other people get to argue against you. Maybe your wife is pissed off with you, or your friends don't want to hang out with you because you always say stupid shit.

Losing your job is a punishment and it's a silencing tactic. And it sets a precedent. Now you can say something that others find offensive and lose your job, too.

Indeed, this has been happening to women for quite some time now.

So sorry someone did this to you. I hope they were caught and charged.

You make a good point though - one way to show he's sorry would be to (under doctor's supervision) try it for himself. He obviously doesn't take the issue of unconsenting women being drugged seriously if he's willing to joke about it. I bet he'd change his tune pretty quickly if it happened to him.

Hopefully he'll be getting his P45 and a divorce for Christmas. Dreadful that anyone thinks this would be an 'amusing' thing to say, let alone come out and say it.