That people (mostly men) underestimate my intelligence?

[Merryandbright1170]

Was at a work Christmas party. I work in education and got speaking to a male teacher who's also head of year. I'm new to the school and starting off as a teaching assistant. Hoping to progress and get a doctorate in education eventually. Previously I was training in a professional career eg. Lawyer, accountant, surveyor that kind of thing and did my exams. I wanted to switch career to something that was more fulfilling though.
In this conversation with this teacher I told him all this and my career path. He surprisingly said "oh wow you're actually quite intelligent" I laughed and said yes I guess so. I was a bit dumbfounded at him being so surprised.
This is not the first time, when I was younger and dated, men would seem put off that I was in a professional career. My mum said to me I think they don't like that fact you're smart. I also hate when you give an idea but they don't want to hear it but then a man will suggest the same and they get a massive pat on the back.

Why is it that men think you're dumb. I'm also a single parent so I have that stigma attached to me aswell. People seem to have this perception of me that I'm a bit dumb. I would say I'm average looking, slightly above (not a brag) too so don't know if that feeds into stereotypes.

Just sick of always being underestimated.

How so? Any tips lol

I haven't stereotyped. It's my lived experience of alot of men. However there are exceptions and its not all.

Thank you, that's really nice to hear.

This kind of thing makes me think of Phillip schofield who was rude to the runners in the beginning of his career, they then became producers later on and didn't like or want him. People should just be kind and humble.

When I was much younger and doing temp jobs I came across quite a few older men who treated me as the dizzy blonde. I admit I enjoyed letting them dig themselves into a hole before saying I was quite capable of doing the invoices as was partway through a maths based degree.

I remember when I started a new job in a local authority in the late 1980s, and the Chief Further Education Officer told me I was very intelligent for a woman! I can't say I was offended or outraged, I just found it very funny 😆😆

Many people are full of shit and like to wind others up....verbal passive aggressiveness etc, to see the other person squirm and try to put them on "the defensive" and justify themselves.

Someones qualifications and career path are none of anyone's business.

If you're signing on, have decided to work as a cleaner or as a QC or selling teddies online, no-one polite actually cares unless you're directly impacting them in some way.

Are there not a million polite/interesting/neutral topics to bring up instead?

It's a good way of telling weirdos and people with poor social skills. And of course they disproportionately target women, non-white people etc. Or people they think can't answer back because of the social constraints in certain environments.

(Would they want to discuss the employment prospects of a group of 6 foot youths hanging around a bus shelter at midnight? Or ask THEM to justify their educational and life choices?).

Maybe it's age, but this is why WFH is popular now - less arseholes.

(Here endeth the first Mumsnet Xmas Eve cheerful sermon 😊)

I know exactly what you mean. I work in education, in a non teaching role, and people often assume I’m thick, or at least a bit of an airhead.

I’m actually paid as much as a head of department, which I think annoys them, and I take care of my appearance, dress well, wear red lipstick most day, so I think some of the judgement comes from that. People assume that I’m fluffy, when I’m really not, and I have a degree and a masters, which is more than most of the teaching staff. Genuine looks of surprise that I am politically engaged, well read and knowledgeable about issues around education and mental health. There’s def a them and us with teaching/support staff in schools.

Have had that too, along with the 'oh, you're quite bright' type of comment particularly when I was younger. However, now I'm older and silver haired, I've had people assume I'm in charge when I really wasn't!

Historically these roles were ‘mums’ army’. Nowadays they are a route into teaching. He should know that 😩

Possibly it was just clumsy. (Possibly he was a shit.)

I wouldn't make any assumptions about your 'intelligence', but I would be mildly surprised you had been doing professional exams beforehand and then switched to being a TA. Partly because I don't know anyone who has done that, and partly because it's a hell of a salary drop, so you must really be committed to the career change, and I wish I felt that passionate about something.

When people muse over your career choices, it's usually less about you and more about them.

I work in one of the professions you've named, and the vast majority of people I know are always fantasising about doing something else for a living, but can't think of what they'd be any good at instead. If any of my peers or I seemed taken aback or distant, it would be entirely because we would be mulling over what a change like that would look like, and mentally weighing up the drop in income against not having the pressure to hit X% of billable hours.

People judge themselves far more than other people. Doesn't always come across that way, but it's typically true!

I call this Heddy Lamar syndrome.

Heddy Lamar was a 40s Hollywood sex siren who was not only red hot and smoking in the looks department but in the brains. A bina fide boffin she invented a means of swapping radio channels so that the Germans couldn't eavesdrop.

Also, men tend to think with the hanging brain when dealing with the female sex.

Totally this. I’m not stupid but found that letting people think that works to my advantage. It’s also a kind of self protection thing. When I was younger I found a disproportionate number of men were threatened by an intelligent and independant younger woman and sometimes this is a bad thing.

Can you give an example of how this has ever been "to my advantage"? I simply can't think of any situation in which it's useful for people to think you're a numpty?

Strategic incompetence in essence. If you can do your job but don’t excel even though you are more than capable, then you’ll not get all the shit dumped on you at work or extra “projects”. Some people might like that but I want a job not a career and have no desire to prioritise my job over all else. Also if people don’t think you can speak a language you can find out all sorts of shit because they don’t think you understand.

Ok fair enough @Ebeneser the unexpected language knowledge could be interesting at times, though perhaps in quite specific circumstances. I don't think we are discussing actual intellect though if it's someone who's able to enjoy picking away at a job medium-to-poorly, mindless activity tends to drive an intelligent person bonkers. It's much easier for someone intelligent to just change position to earn more money for fewer hours, so I don't think that example works.

I know my Dd who was very artistic and went on to study art at A level found that (mostly) boys who were studying the sciences could be very patronising as art was seen a fluffy subject and not particularly onerous. They were still at the age when grades were compared. She would surprise some of these boys when they found out she’d scored an A grade in mathematics and physics., sometimes better grades than them.

It works the other way too; I did chemistry at university and people assumed I was basically illiterate. One guy who was studying history looked at my bookshelf and said “have you actually read any of those?”.

I think people just like to pigeonhole others - a lot of people can’t cope with the idea of someone being good at more than one thing.

Not necessarily. It’s easier said than done to get a job that pays more for less work/hours, especially if you live in a rural area and don’t want to move. Sometimes it’s easier to do a job, that’s well paid for the area, but extremely boring and routine that you can do very well, but not let on just how efficient you are. Why say you can do X in Y time - overestimate how long it will take. Otherwise it will be expected of you every time and your targets will get shorter and eventually more stressful to meet etc. Companies like to squeeze every last ounce out and then some. Don’t give it them all. Their priority is the shareholders not you. Work to live, not live to work.

I’m a secondary school teacher and I’ve considered becoming a TA. Teaching is becoming an increasingly toxic profession for one reason and another - in the current recruitment/retention crisis I’d imagine a lot of people who were originally attracted to teaching now see being a TA as a better (if worse-paid) option.

As I said in a previous post, the range of experience and levels of education TAs have is huge. Ex teachers, degree and masters holders, school leavers, returners to the work force, career changers. Never assume...

My friend has ridiculously long eyelashes that make her look like a fawn. At university when they were handing out exam papers they were very reluctant to hand her the papers with A s on them. They didn’t believe the quiet girl had any sort of brain. Jokes on them, she runs the lot of them at the bank now. Although we all still try and copy the trick she does with her eyelashes.

Not necessarily over-qualified, just not relevantly qualified. When I moved from a broadcast career into being a TA, my degree meant I could skip the two-year day-release qualification to go straight in. My degree is in English and Media Studies, but I didn’t have any education-related qualifications. My colleague had to retake a maths GCSE to take a TA job, but also had the 2-year course behind her, so had far more of a handle on current education trends, theories and techniques than me when we started.

I get this all the time where I work and it drives me mad. I was offered a job pre-pandemic but by the time I’d started during the pandemic the manager had changed so my current supervisor did not appoint me/ read my application/ interview me. I’m sure he thinks I’m unworthy of the role but what he doesn’t know is that I worked three grades higher than him for at least five years, having worked my way up the organisation. I then got made redundant and left. When the job I’ve got now came around I wanted to do it for better job satisfaction even though it’s less money. It’s a really worthwhile role and I love it. He also doesn’t know I have a PhD. He’s an absolute arsehole and makes my working days miserable with his patronising attitude towards me. I could do his role with my eyes closed and will definitely apply for it should he ever leave.

Outside of work, people are often surprised that I even have a job - I’m always scruffy as I work from home, hair tied up, little to no make up on. When I have to go in to work and happen to do school pick up on the same day noone recognises me in the playground.

I was a stay at home mum for two years, after being made redundant and absolutely loved it. I genuinely believe people underestimate mums in general and there should definitely be a section of job applications where you can list all the skills and abilities you’ve gained as a parent - the work ethic, the self-motivation, the juggling of competing demands. I am definitely a much better employee having been a mum for 10 years.

@Monkeytrousers04

I had this too . A young ambitious guy who used to slag me down to management behind my back , saying I was thick and crap at my job . He used to go in to a frenzy if I said I was going to apply for progression . He also blocked my career path by telling lies about me . Management thought the sun shone out of him .

“Not intelligent enough to understand what you mean by that. Can you explain?”