Page 3 | That people (mostly men) underestimate my intelligence?

Merryandbright1170 · 2023-12-22T10:36:35+00:00

Was at a work Christmas party. I work in education and got speaking to a male teacher who's also head of year. I'm new to the school and starting off as a teaching assistant. Hoping to progress and get a doctorate in education eventually. Previously I was training in a professional career eg. Lawyer, accountant, surveyor that kind of thing and did my exams. I wanted to switch career to something that was more fulfilling though. In this conversation with this teacher I told him all this and my career path. He surprisingly said "oh wow you're actually quite intelligent" I laughed and said yes I guess so. I was a bit dumbfounded at him being so surprised. This is not the first time, when I was younger and dated, men would seem put off that I was in a professional career. My mum said to me I think they don't like that fact you're smart. I also hate when you give an idea but they don't want to hear it but then a man will suggest the same and they get a massive pat on the back. Why is it that men think you're dumb. I'm also a single parent so I have that stigma attached to me aswell. People seem to have this perception of me that I'm a bit dumb. I would say I'm average looking, slightly above (not a brag) too so don't know if that feeds into stereotypes. Just sick of always being underestimated.

Bobbotgegrinch · 22/12/2023 12:57

OnionOnionH · 22/12/2023 11:43

Thanks for being honest. I don’t know how any rationale human being can believe that being born female, or anything other than white male equates to less intelligence. I grew up in a house that was far from politically correct, but never for a minute thought I was any less than because I was female. My parents regularly spouted quite racist opinions on this topic, that to this day baffle me. How can anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together think that being born a certain way makes you less intelligent.

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I don't think it's any sort of idea that women are genetically less intelligent as such, but more of an ingrained idea that less priority is put on womens education, on their careers. Its a sense of surprise when I see a woman who's right at the top of her field, that she's had the opportunities to get there.

For instance, my grandparents were both teachers, Gran taught Maths, Grandad taught Woodworking. Both equally important roles, but when they got married it was Gran who quit her job instantly. And when it came time for their kids to go to uni, all my Mums brothers went, but she didn't because what was the point when you were just going to get married in a few years. And my Mum just went along with it

And that's utterly stupid thinking, and I worked that out early, but it had still been ingrained in me at a young age, that women stayed home and men did the important things. My Mum eventually started railing against it, but it took her divorcing my Dad before she did.

Finally, to @Allfur , they did teach me to think for myself in my house, because I was a boy and boys were more important as far as my family were concerned. Which is why I do know that when these thoughts happen, I can identify them as a load of crap that I've tried to ditch over the years.

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 22/12/2023 13:52

Allfur · 22/12/2023 11:38

Vroom, so you're a best selling author but work in a supermarket for shits n giggles?

Being a best seller doesn't make as much money as non-authors tend to think! And I live very rurally, so unless I'm prepared for a long commute (I'm not), it's the supermarket or farm work (which I've also done). I'm single, no second income coming in to help with bills - so the supermarket is a nice steady earner.

GRex · 22/12/2023 14:59

It might be more to do wIth how you present yourself. If you look straight at people and start conversations on a range of topics then that's less likely to happen. Certainly I don't have an issue with everyone roaming round thinking I'm thick, and I'm not aware of work colleagues nor friends generally having this as an issue. I have in the past spoken to a few team members about how they present themselves, though men as well as women, if they are acting in too junior/ potentially perceived as unintelligent way. There are some excellent personal impact courses you can sign up for that may really help.

His comment sounds odd, but I'd be a bit surprised at someone being a TA to become a teacher if they already have a degree, it isn't the usual route.

Original poster

Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 17:50

MisgenderedPaul · 22/12/2023 11:55

If you get it a lot, then maybe you are giving that impression.

I'm not referring to the occasional mansplaining misogynist, obvs, but how many times is this happening?
Do you go around looking dazed and confused? 😊

Well I say a lot, it's been over the space of 15 years. I am just a chatty person who can hold small talk well.
However peoples first impressions of me without knowing my background seem to be surprise that I am intelligent.
At my new place of work I mentioned I liked to rock climb and paddle board and my colleague actually said to me wow I weren't expecting you to say that. I feel based on my looks, that I like to look fashionable and that I look youngish that I'm placed in a certain box which does not include a brain.

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Original poster

Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 17:52

GRex · 22/12/2023 14:59

It might be more to do wIth how you present yourself. If you look straight at people and start conversations on a range of topics then that's less likely to happen. Certainly I don't have an issue with everyone roaming round thinking I'm thick, and I'm not aware of work colleagues nor friends generally having this as an issue. I have in the past spoken to a few team members about how they present themselves, though men as well as women, if they are acting in too junior/ potentially perceived as unintelligent way. There are some excellent personal impact courses you can sign up for that may really help.

His comment sounds odd, but I'd be a bit surprised at someone being a TA to become a teacher if they already have a degree, it isn't the usual route.

As I've said I don't wish to be a teacher, I know I could go straight into a PGCE. I want to take more of the mental health and psychologist route. However to do so I need my degree plus 2 years of practical experience working with children. Which I didn't have, plus it fits in with me being a single parent.

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Original poster

Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 17:53

I've also had 2 private messages from men since starting this thread. One of which I think is trying to get me to explain to him what I look like.....

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ValerieMoore · 22/12/2023 18:00

I don’t know how accurate this is: men have a higher potential for higher IQ than women. Men interpret that how they want to.

Gnomegnomegnome · 22/12/2023 18:00

Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 17:53

I've also had 2 private messages from men since starting this thread. One of which I think is trying to get me to explain to him what I look like.....

You’ll be getting photos of their dicks brains next.
Report them.

I am the opposite in that I love when strangers underestimate me or don’t think that I’m worth talking to (especially when they are really impressed by my Dh job) and then they find out what I do. It’s usually Dh that tells them.

Original poster

Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 18:44

Gnomegnomegnome · 22/12/2023 18:00

You’ll be getting photos of their dicks brains next.
Report them.

I am the opposite in that I love when strangers underestimate me or don’t think that I’m worth talking to (especially when they are really impressed by my Dh job) and then they find out what I do. It’s usually Dh that tells them.

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Gah, I hope not haha! I've blocked them.

@ValerieMoore how do men have a high potential for a higher IQ?

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ValerieMoore · 22/12/2023 18:49

@Merryandbright1170 it’s a “fact” I’ve noticed on the internet throughout my life. Apparently men have a higher range in IQ. This means they are also more likely than women to have a very low IQ. From a personal perspective, I’ve known (not met) more men than women who I think are smarter than me. They also tend to get the Nobel prize.

thing47 · 22/12/2023 19:21

DS works abroad in a kind of sports management role and in the peak summer season they take on lots of local people as bar staff and waiting staff. They're mostly university students and he says it's always amusing to watch how people's attitudes change when they find out the person serving them food has just finished a maths post-grad, or the person mixing a cocktail is in the middle of a medical degree.

There was a very entertaining thread on here a while back about the mismatch between how people look and act, and what they do. Women like @ElaineMBenes are often underestimated - it's like we can't enjoy wearing heels and make-up and be a serious academic or professional. When was that decided? certainly didn't get the memo!

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Merryandbright1170 · 23/12/2023 08:43

ValerieMoore · 22/12/2023 18:49

@Merryandbright1170 it’s a “fact” I’ve noticed on the internet throughout my life. Apparently men have a higher range in IQ. This means they are also more likely than women to have a very low IQ. From a personal perspective, I’ve known (not met) more men than women who I think are smarter than me. They also tend to get the Nobel prize.

But is that not on a level some form of misogyny that men tend to get Nobel prizes more than women? Plus they probably do have more opportunity due to women having a family and societal norms saying the woman should stay home with the baby and then they are out of the workplace for a long time?

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Soontobe60 · 23/12/2023 08:46

Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 11:00

That just proves my point on stereotypes though. I had to be a teaching assistant to gain my 2 years experience working with children before moving up.

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Moving up to what?

Cluborange666 · 23/12/2023 08:50

This happens to me sometimes. Maybe because I’m middle aged, short, fat and Irish? I don’t know… I did have a comical episode once where, as a qualified secondary school teacher, OFSTED came in and assumed that my TA (male) was in fact the teacher of the class and not me (younger female). The inspector was a woman too! I now run a business which is part time but I make 40k and will make more next year. I don’t talk about it but recently had a couple of male friends act surprised to find out my earnings were that much as they assumed that I made barely anything. Equally my in laws assume that everything is paid for by my husband which is not the case. Maybe I need to show off more…

Soontobe60 · 23/12/2023 08:51

Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 11:48

I know but I don't wish to become a teacher. I want to go down the more mental health, psychologist route

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What degree do you have? Educational psychology is extremely difficult to get into as it’s hard to get onto a course.
https://www.aep.org.uk/interested-career-educational-psychology

Interested in a career in Educational Psychology?

About Educational Psychology

https://www.aep.org.uk/interested-career-educational-psychology

Benibidibici · 23/12/2023 08:59

He was incredibly rude to say that.

tbh though i would probably have also assumed a TA had few qualifications because it requires none and is one of the worst paid jobs out there. I'd always assume on that basis that part of why people are doing it is because they lack the qualifications to get something better.

The TAs at our school are primarily mothers who left school with a handful of low grade GCSEs at best. When they do move on it tends to be for care work or retail which similarly require few qualifications.

Original poster

Merryandbright1170 · 23/12/2023 09:12

Soontobe60 · 23/12/2023 08:51

What degree do you have? Educational psychology is extremely difficult to get into as it’s hard to get onto a course.
https://www.aep.org.uk/interested-career-educational-psychology

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Yes I'm aware, hence trying to get as much experience working with children as possible. I have a psychology degree.

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Original poster

Merryandbright1170 · 23/12/2023 09:14

Benibidibici · 23/12/2023 08:59

He was incredibly rude to say that.

tbh though i would probably have also assumed a TA had few qualifications because it requires none and is one of the worst paid jobs out there. I'd always assume on that basis that part of why people are doing it is because they lack the qualifications to get something better.

The TAs at our school are primarily mothers who left school with a handful of low grade GCSEs at best. When they do move on it tends to be for care work or retail which similarly require few qualifications.

Perhaps, I had no previous paid experience working with children so this is my in to climb higher. I know of others who worked as a TA with degrees before doing their PGCE so it's not always the case that people are TAs for the reason of no qualifications

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Creational · 23/12/2023 09:15

Soontobe60 · 23/12/2023 08:51

What degree do you have? Educational psychology is extremely difficult to get into as it’s hard to get onto a course.
https://www.aep.org.uk/interested-career-educational-psychology

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Working in education, I'm constantly baffled by the number of people who want to be an EP. It looks incredibly unfulfilling - a merry-go-round of reports for EHCPs and seeing an ever changing stream of children before you can have much of an impact. They all seek to have ridiculous workloads. I can only assume it's the salary.

Creational · 23/12/2023 09:18

OP, I agree with others that there could be something in how you present yourself. Do you tend to talk in a young way, or use immature vocabulary? It's usually pretty obvious after talking to someone for a while to have some idea of their level of intelligence, regardless of their job role.

earthfindwire · 23/12/2023 09:20

@bonzaitree now I want to know what job it is you do!

I don’t tend to find out what the bar or supermarket staff’s qualifications are. Is this even ruder than presuming they don’t have any? Maybe it’s because I am quite shy but if I did get into a conversation it would probably be vague small talk about the weather or how busy it was in the bar/supermarket, not a rundown of their CV.

WilderRose · 23/12/2023 11:19

TAs have a huge range of educational qualifications and life experiences...people shouldn't assume...

Benibidibici · 23/12/2023 11:19

Women like @ElaineMBenesare often underestimated - it's like we can't enjoy wearing heels and make-up and be a serious academic or professional.

I honestly just tend to make assumptions. Most of the very senior, academic or professional women I know tend not to wear either high heels or heavy make up. I don't know why that is, but it means my brain recognises that its a pattern, and tries to class people I have less information about by the same pattern.

Age is possibly an element, most of the older women i know wear less make up than women in their twenties, and most of the senior professionals I know are in their 40s & 50s.

Maireas · 23/12/2023 11:22

Are you going to do teacher training, or just a doctorate in education?

ElaineMBenes · 23/12/2023 11:40

Benibidibici · 23/12/2023 11:19

Women like @ElaineMBenesare often underestimated - it's like we can't enjoy wearing heels and make-up and be a serious academic or professional.

I honestly just tend to make assumptions. Most of the very senior, academic or professional women I know tend not to wear either high heels or heavy make up. I don't know why that is, but it means my brain recognises that its a pattern, and tries to class people I have less information about by the same pattern.

Age is possibly an element, most of the older women i know wear less make up than women in their twenties, and most of the senior professionals I know are in their 40s & 50s.

And what do you do to address these assumptions and biases?

I'm 40 and was a senior academic in my mid 30's. I don't wear 'heavy 'make up at work but I do wear make up and tend to favour bright colours.
Out of work in social situations I tend to dress up more as I like it.
None of that has any bearing on my ability to do my job or on my intelligence. The fact I'm the youngest person at my university doing my job and one of the only women is testament to that.