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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

That people (mostly men) underestimate my intelligence?

124 replies

Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 10:36

Was at a work Christmas party. I work in education and got speaking to a male teacher who's also head of year. I'm new to the school and starting off as a teaching assistant. Hoping to progress and get a doctorate in education eventually. Previously I was training in a professional career eg. Lawyer, accountant, surveyor that kind of thing and did my exams. I wanted to switch career to something that was more fulfilling though.
In this conversation with this teacher I told him all this and my career path. He surprisingly said "oh wow you're actually quite intelligent" I laughed and said yes I guess so. I was a bit dumbfounded at him being so surprised.
This is not the first time, when I was younger and dated, men would seem put off that I was in a professional career. My mum said to me I think they don't like that fact you're smart. I also hate when you give an idea but they don't want to hear it but then a man will suggest the same and they get a massive pat on the back.

Why is it that men think you're dumb. I'm also a single parent so I have that stigma attached to me aswell. People seem to have this perception of me that I'm a bit dumb. I would say I'm average looking, slightly above (not a brag) too so don't know if that feeds into stereotypes.

Just sick of always being underestimated.

OP posts:
WandaWonder · 22/12/2023 11:24

Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 11:11

My point isn't just about the comment. It's about previous men either being surprised or intimidated by my intelligence. I wouldn't say I'm the smartest person ever but I have a good education and have had professional jobs. Men just seem to think the lights are on but no ones home. Frustrating and sad at the same time

I think you need to get out more, I think you put more effort into navel gazing about yourself than others do about you

I can't say 'men' have made me think anything other than they are not some homogeneous collective, they are individual like women

Bobbotgegrinch · 22/12/2023 11:29

I'm going to admit something now that will get me crucified, and rightly so.

I'm a man, and I subconsciously think that women are less intelligent.

I grew up in a household where this was spouted as truth, and even though its something my conscious mind knows for a fact is not true, it's still there in the back of my mind.

I've been listening to Alaister Campbell and Rory Stewarts podcast where they interview various leaders (political, scientific, sport etc.), and they've had some spectacularly intelligent women on it. And I find myself thinking "Wow, I'm really surprised how much she's got a handle on this subject", and then catching myself and realising what a ridiculous thought that is. I even caught myself doing it on an episode where I was simultaneously getting annoyed at the two hosts being slightly misogynistic!

I do it with DP sometimes too. And while it's probably true in terms of useless general knowledge, or scientific or technical stuff, there are other areas like her mental arithmetic, or conflict resolution, where she puts me to shame.

It's an absolutely horrible bias that I've tried so hard to get rid of, but it's always going to be sat there in the back of my head because it was learnt as a kid, and I think it's too ingrained.

Weirdly, the only woman I have never done it with is DD. I've never been under any illusion that she wasn't smarter than me.

Feel free to commence kicking the shit out of me now.

TizerorFizz · 22/12/2023 11:30

I’m confused. Do you not have a degree? People with degrees can become teachers without being a TA. You just do the PGCE. That’s what my friends did. So I assume you are having to train via another route and maybe this is what led to the comment. It wouldn’t really bother me. Are you a fully qualified solicitor, accountant or surveyor or did you not qualify? Most people doing these jobs have a degree.

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 22/12/2023 11:34

Enjoy confounding them.

I work in a supermarket, so people regularly assume that it's the only job I could get, that I'm not very bright etc. What they don't know is that I also write bestselling books and have a first class honours degree, I don't have to work in the supermarket, but I choose to.

At the first hint that I'm being patronised, I either throw some Latin into the conversation or use some long words, then watch their confusion. The Latin is particularly effective, especially when they stare blankly and I can smile deprecatingly and say 'oh, me and my classical education!'

The cognitive dissonance they endure is brilliant.

amberisola · 22/12/2023 11:36

I get it OP. If you're female and young (ish, or young looking, like me) and even remotely attractive, a lot of people will just write you off as dumb or uneducated.

It's very embarrassing for them, as it reveals a lack of intelligence and social grace, plus a failure of imagination on their part. The fact is though there's a pervasive belief in society that a woman can't possibly be both attractive and intelligent - only one or the other. No such belief exists about men, of course!

I'm short, and love fashion and makeup. Heaven forbid. I have a senior job in a 'serious' profession where I work with very academic types (I also went to a very good uni, and people sometimes seem surprised to find that out - charming!)

It's a constant battle to assert yourself. But also, as PP have said, when people underestimate you it's often possible to turn that to your advantage. So my attitude is that, if they're stupid enough to make assumptions, let them.

Original poster
Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 11:36

ActDottie · 22/12/2023 11:20

Yanbu and I can totally relate to this.

I have a maths degree and qualified in a profession that is very highly regarded. Once men find out what I do the whole tone of the conversation changes. I hate it!

Should add it’s not all men, but a lot of them. They almost go into this “let’s impress her with my knowledge mode” or they look really embarrassed because they’ve spent the last twenty minutes bragging about their own job.

Haha yes! Sometimes they then go into mansplaning on your job.

Alot of people think this intimidation thing doesn't happen but it really does. The tone of conversation totally changes and its not a nice feeling. It's like the scales tip and they can't quite deal with it not being in their favour anymore.

OP posts:
HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 22/12/2023 11:37

Did he mean as opposed to him...?

Original poster
Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 11:37

Rocksonabeach · 22/12/2023 11:17

You’re in the wrong school OP.

I’m a teacher, my technician in fact the last two of them - both had a first class degree and a masters, I can’t think of anyone in my school that doesn’t have a degree, although to be sure I haven’t asked. At our Christmas dinner the teachers sat with cleaning staff, TA (although we don’t call them that). And no one in my school would like anyone wasn’t intelligent - our receptionists keep the whole school running on full speed no matter what, without our cleaners who work throughout the day it wouldn’t look so amazing day in and day out.

my response to him would have been ‘could you say that again out loud and just think about what you are actually saying’ you are saying anyone not a teacher is a ‘bit thick’ are you - ?? And watch him splutter oh have you just processed it - unfortunately you have no understanding of how intelligence is or works I think I’ll move on …. To another conversation

I would really follow it up. It’s a personal thing and he needs to be called out on it. What a tosser!

a degree doesn’t make you intelligent either by the way…..

I'm in primary, so don't know if it would make a difference in secondary or Higher Education

OP posts:
Allfur · 22/12/2023 11:38

Vroom, so you're a best selling author but work in a supermarket for shits n giggles?

Allfur · 22/12/2023 11:40

I feel sorry for the girls in his year

RedHelenB · 22/12/2023 11:41

Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 11:00

That just proves my point on stereotypes though. I had to be a teaching assistant to gain my 2 years experience working with children before moving up.

Show quote history

What country do you live in? In the UK you can go straight to do the pgce from your degree.

JazzyJogger · 22/12/2023 11:42

Redkite11 · 22/12/2023 11:12

I know what you mean. When I was younger, I was often underestimated and I was also a bit above average looking (maybe an 8 out of 10 although now I’m more a 5). However, everyone is different. Some people will underestimate you and others won’t. I’m sure you yourself have had the wrong first impression about someone. We all do it and it doesn’t mean that you or someone else is a bad person.

That said, you are right to want your colleagues and superiors know your worth. That does matter if you want to climb the ladder.

I experienced this . It's just a way of taking you down .

5128gap · 22/12/2023 11:42

I don't know whether men think women are stupid, just almost always less intelligent than they are. So the less intelligent the man the dumber he's going to assume you are.

OnionOnionH · 22/12/2023 11:43

Bobbotgegrinch · 22/12/2023 11:29

I'm going to admit something now that will get me crucified, and rightly so.

I'm a man, and I subconsciously think that women are less intelligent.

I grew up in a household where this was spouted as truth, and even though its something my conscious mind knows for a fact is not true, it's still there in the back of my mind.

I've been listening to Alaister Campbell and Rory Stewarts podcast where they interview various leaders (political, scientific, sport etc.), and they've had some spectacularly intelligent women on it. And I find myself thinking "Wow, I'm really surprised how much she's got a handle on this subject", and then catching myself and realising what a ridiculous thought that is. I even caught myself doing it on an episode where I was simultaneously getting annoyed at the two hosts being slightly misogynistic!

I do it with DP sometimes too. And while it's probably true in terms of useless general knowledge, or scientific or technical stuff, there are other areas like her mental arithmetic, or conflict resolution, where she puts me to shame.

It's an absolutely horrible bias that I've tried so hard to get rid of, but it's always going to be sat there in the back of my head because it was learnt as a kid, and I think it's too ingrained.

Weirdly, the only woman I have never done it with is DD. I've never been under any illusion that she wasn't smarter than me.

Feel free to commence kicking the shit out of me now.

Edited

Thanks for being honest. I don’t know how any rationale human being can believe that being born female, or anything other than white male equates to less intelligence. I grew up in a house that was far from politically correct, but never for a minute thought I was any less than because I was female. My parents regularly spouted quite racist opinions on this topic, that to this day baffle me. How can anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together think that being born a certain way makes you less intelligent.

Peepshowcreepshow · 22/12/2023 11:44

Was he being serious or sarcastic? Being cornered at a work party by someone who gives their educational history in detail may seem a little 'chip on shoulder'.

Original poster
Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 11:45

Bobbotgegrinch · 22/12/2023 11:29

I'm going to admit something now that will get me crucified, and rightly so.

I'm a man, and I subconsciously think that women are less intelligent.

I grew up in a household where this was spouted as truth, and even though its something my conscious mind knows for a fact is not true, it's still there in the back of my mind.

I've been listening to Alaister Campbell and Rory Stewarts podcast where they interview various leaders (political, scientific, sport etc.), and they've had some spectacularly intelligent women on it. And I find myself thinking "Wow, I'm really surprised how much she's got a handle on this subject", and then catching myself and realising what a ridiculous thought that is. I even caught myself doing it on an episode where I was simultaneously getting annoyed at the two hosts being slightly misogynistic!

I do it with DP sometimes too. And while it's probably true in terms of useless general knowledge, or scientific or technical stuff, there are other areas like her mental arithmetic, or conflict resolution, where she puts me to shame.

It's an absolutely horrible bias that I've tried so hard to get rid of, but it's always going to be sat there in the back of my head because it was learnt as a kid, and I think it's too ingrained.

Weirdly, the only woman I have never done it with is DD. I've never been under any illusion that she wasn't smarter than me.

Feel free to commence kicking the shit out of me now.

Edited

I don't think you should get backlash for your comment at all. I think it's great to have this conversation! Especially when it's realised that misogyny is ingrained from a young age and you realise your bias. Even better that you catch yourself and change the thinking.

It's societal norms and it's so hard to change. But with men like yourself perhaps it will slowly change. I'm not saying I'm better then men or women are. It would just be nice not for men to be surprised or unestimate us.

OP posts:
bonzaitree · 22/12/2023 11:48

Yes 100% OP.

When I was dating, I didn’t have ny job on my profile page. On first dates, some men (not all!) would physically react when I responded to their question about what I did 😂 some would then go on to rant about how degrees were pointless, how everyone who went to uni is in debt for life, how amazing their career is, how mine isn’t as good as I think it is etc etc.

It was illuminating! They didn’t seem to grasp that a woman can be both desirable and feminine AND have a good career (which is better than theirs)!

Current partner obv didn’t react like that, hence why he is now my partner!

Original poster
Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 11:48

RedHelenB · 22/12/2023 11:41

What country do you live in? In the UK you can go straight to do the pgce from your degree.

Show quote history

I know but I don't wish to become a teacher. I want to go down the more mental health, psychologist route

OP posts:
Original poster
Merryandbright1170 · 22/12/2023 11:49

Peepshowcreepshow · 22/12/2023 11:44

Was he being serious or sarcastic? Being cornered at a work party by someone who gives their educational history in detail may seem a little 'chip on shoulder'.

Serious, he asked me about my background as I mentioned I changed career

OP posts:
Hubblebubble · 22/12/2023 11:50

You're over qualified to be a TA. Although plenty of people TA for a year as a taster, to get a feel for working in education. My friend, when a recent graduate with a first in English, did just that. The teacher used to explain long words to her in a condescending manner. She's now a librarian.

MisgenderedPaul · 22/12/2023 11:55

If you get it a lot, then maybe you are giving that impression.

I'm not referring to the occasional mansplaining misogynist, obvs, but how many times is this happening?
Do you go around looking dazed and confused? 😊

Citrusandginger · 22/12/2023 11:57

Unfortunately I'd say it's not an uncommon experience. I left a senior job in Healthcare to care for my DM whilst juggling DC and went to work part time in retail when DM went into a care home as I still had a lot of running round to do.

Was treated like I was shit on a shoe much of the time. Because I was female, over 40 and part time. Also denied an interview for a project role because I hadn't got the right internal courses. I had an MBA & Prince 2 along with my HCP qualification.

Sadly I lacked a penis and the ability to talk about football.

5128gap · 22/12/2023 11:58

No ones going to kick the shit out of you @Bobbotgegrinch You must know that the only thing a lot of MNetters like more than an actual real man joining the conversation is an actual real man crying "I'm terribly flawed ladies, but, what can you do, eh?" You will likely find your contribution gets a great deal more attention than those of the women on the thread. Which is of course interesting, because you're not telling us anything we don't know, but your maleness gives you greater credibility, which neatly affirms your point about unconscious bias.

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 22/12/2023 12:03

I've had people of both sexes do that - 'Oh you've got a {insert name of fairly high level qualification} - I didn't realise (with the realise said in a really patronising way)'.
I have learnt to ignore it though, life is too short me me to get bothered by it. I understand that you are bothered by it though, and that man just sounds rude!

Allfur · 22/12/2023 12:04

Bobbot - they didn't teach you to think for yourself in your household then? , which in itself is a bit dumb