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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Family and petrol money

105 replies

Monkey987 · 20/12/2023 22:30

Aibu to charge my family petrol money to visit another family member a 420 mile round trip drive away? They don't drive.

The train ticket would be £120 each return and would take over 5 hours whereas driving would take 4 hours and they would be picked up at their doors and dropped off at their doors.

I've worked out petrol would cost about £60 so was going to tell them it was £30 each to cover my costs. They don't drive so don't understand cars and petrol. But also don't understand that mileage costs me repairs and depreciation on my newish car.

Im not someone that ever asked for petrol money when I had an old car but now I have a new car where mileage matters and loses my car value it's made me think more.

What do you think? Should I ask them for £30 each. Is that fair? What would you do?

OP posts:
AuntMarch · 21/12/2023 12:10

Fuzziduck · 21/12/2023 05:53

Just let them know you've worked out the fuel cost, and can't really afford to pay for it all.

I disagree with this, there should be no expectation for OP to cover all the cost as well as make all the effort, even if she's minted!

OhmygodDont · 21/12/2023 12:13

Just ask them for the cash. It’s cheek af to expect someone to drive you that far for free

LifeonMarsnotVenus · 21/12/2023 12:22

Moonshine5 · 21/12/2023 01:16

OP has only mentioned one trip. Don't derail the thread by making up multiple imaginary journeys.

Monkey987 · Yesterday 22:47
**
I know it sounds harsh that's why I asked but I literally have been driving them round for over 8 years and it's now become an expectation.

OP had already said she’s been driving them around for over 8 years. So not imaginary journeys and presumably they’ve never once offered to cover her fuel costs which I find incredibly shocking. My mum always offered to pay and she was always overly generous.

The OP’s family are taking the piss as they know fine well that cars cost £££ to run. She’s shouldn’t become their default free taxi service.

@Monkey987 you need to start recouping some of your lost petrol money so charging them for lifts and split the petrol costs between the two of them only and your (financial) contribution is using your car and doing all the driving.

You need to be very firm and don’t compromise at this stage. Eventually, they’ll either accept that they have to pay you a fair price for all these lifts or they organise their own transport at a much higher cost.

MaybeSmaller · 21/12/2023 12:26

If I was going anyway, then I wouldn't dream of asking for money. It doesn't cost much extra in petrol to carry 2 extra people and I would be grateful for the company tbh.
If they've arranged it and just presumed you're going to drive them, and you wouldn't be going at all if it wasn't for them, then that's totally different and in complete CF territory.
I would just say something like: I don't like driving long distances and shall we look at getting the train or coach instead?
If there's a precedent for you driving them long distances for free, though, then any conversation is going to be awkward.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 21/12/2023 12:26

AuntMarch · 21/12/2023 12:10

I disagree with this, there should be no expectation for OP to cover all the cost as well as make all the effort, even if she's minted!

Show quote history

I agree with you: the big bosses of the airlines are not short of a bob or two, but that doesn't mean I'd expect to be able to fly with them free of charge, purely on the grounds that they don't need my money.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 21/12/2023 12:29

If I was going anyway, then I wouldn't dream of asking for money. It doesn't cost much extra in petrol to carry 2 extra people and I would be grateful for the company tbh.

Even then, I'd prefer to be on my own and enjoy my own music, audiobook or just silence! Although the additional fuel cost would be minimal, there's a big social cost to sharing a car journey with people who are not your spouse/partner or child!

JustOneMoreBaileys · 21/12/2023 12:54

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 21/12/2023 11:10

Mostly it's just personal preference but I always like to warn people about an upcoming change when there isn't the flash point of a current plan.

The family members don't seem to have done OP the same courtesy of warning her in advance, before deciding that she would drive them 420 miles - as Jim Bowen would have clarified, it sounds like it was telling her, not asking her, that the journey was happening. They're the ones who've created this current flash point!

That's true - hence the 'it's personal preference' caveat.

I would still do it that way. Which is not to say it's right or better.

Moonshine5 · 21/12/2023 12:55

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 21/12/2023 01:28

I said 'if': it may happen or it may not. All I know is that, if you bow to people who expect very significant favours from you, it's very common for them to continue asking for more. They might take a shine to the nice new car, whereas OP's old one might have been much less pleasant.

They clearly haven't given a second thought to the costs of the expected trip and OP's time, so why wouldn't they realise that having all the benefits of a car without any of the costs or having to drive it yourself is a very desirable thing?

They stood to pay £240 for the train - plus taxis to and from the stations, quite possibly - so if it never occurred to them to even offer OP a quarter of this cost (still saving £180 between them) for a much more comfortable and convenient travelling experience, that's a huge sign to me that they are advantage-takers.

Show quote history

You don't know they may have personal problems or financial problems. I still maintain your opinion that it's normal to charge family for wear and tear on cars is extreme.
Anyway you seem very invested lol.
Seasons greetings.

Greenpolkadot · 21/12/2023 13:00

Monkey987 · 20/12/2023 22:34

It is my mum and sibling. I wouldn't usually ask for money. Just feel a bit used as this was organised with the expectation I would drive and it wouldn't cost her any money.

Why dont you just say that you cant afford the petrol

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 21/12/2023 16:49

Moonshine5 · 21/12/2023 12:55

You don't know they may have personal problems or financial problems. I still maintain your opinion that it's normal to charge family for wear and tear on cars is extreme.
Anyway you seem very invested lol.
Seasons greetings.

Show quote history

They don't know if OP has personal or financial problems either, do they? They've just decided to give her a bill that she'll need to pay, in order for them to do the journey that they've planned, without thinking for a moment that she might be struggling financially or have other plans for that time.

They've been driven around by OP for 8 years - so cars do obviously suffer a lot of wear and tear in that time. I'm not saying that you'd come up with a formula to charge them per mile, baking in W&T costs; but if they weren't serial advantage-takers, they would have been regularly giving her money for all the lifts she's given them, to cover the petrol and some extra towards running costs.

Yes, I am quite invested in this thread - that's kind of exactly how this (and every) forum works: you find threads that interest you and then engage on them.

Marwoodsbigbreak · 21/12/2023 16:53

I’m a bit confused.

Do you mean you wouldn’t be going on this trip at all if you weren’t driving? You’re only going because you are the chauffeur?

I wouldn’t have agreed to it in the first place tbh. Just tell them you’re knackered and won’t be up to the trip. They can get the train or find some other sucker to play taxi driver.

Santaiswashinghissleigh · 21/12/2023 16:56

Imo you message before the trip asking them to transfer you their share of travel costs before you set off. You aren't a free ride op. Petrol isn't free.

Cherrysoup · 21/12/2023 17:26

That’s s a hell of a drive-why have you agreed to go? Tell them to get the train! Also, does the relative really want 3 overnight guests? Where will you all stay?

banjocat · 21/12/2023 17:36

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 21/12/2023 11:50

Fair enough, but it was what you said about "they should contribute to your costs if they are able" that I was picking up on.

I'd also slightly quibble the wording of 'your costs' (meaning the OP's): they are their own costs, which they are incurring from the outset (regardless of who physically handles the transactions) by deciding to make the journey.

Show quote history

Lol well that's pretty pedantic but OK.

When I say 'if they are able' - if I had a close family member who was on the breadline and needed a lift somewhere I would probably just do it for them for free.

SusanKennedyshouldLTB · 21/12/2023 17:42

TheSandgroper · 21/12/2023 00:45

Absolutely I would be charging them unless there was a good reason not to. Four hours/£60 there and the same back plus an overnight - that’s two days out of your life you didn’t budget for. Plus a saving of £120 (is that single or return?) each so £240 at least.

There is a certain lack of respect for you there. Tell them your terms and conditions and stand firm on it. And remember that “No” is a complete sentence. https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/520832/2024-the-year-women-said-no

This. Offer them a lift to the train station.

Moonshine5 · 21/12/2023 21:58

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 21/12/2023 16:49

They don't know if OP has personal or financial problems either, do they? They've just decided to give her a bill that she'll need to pay, in order for them to do the journey that they've planned, without thinking for a moment that she might be struggling financially or have other plans for that time.

They've been driven around by OP for 8 years - so cars do obviously suffer a lot of wear and tear in that time. I'm not saying that you'd come up with a formula to charge them per mile, baking in W&T costs; but if they weren't serial advantage-takers, they would have been regularly giving her money for all the lifts she's given them, to cover the petrol and some extra towards running costs.

Yes, I am quite invested in this thread - that's kind of exactly how this (and every) forum works: you find threads that interest you and then engage on them.

Show quote history

But you're fabricating things that haven't happened to suit your narrative. It's a bit boring and irrelevant.
It's normal to drive your mum around and not charge her wear and tear / vat etc.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 22/12/2023 11:36

Moonshine5 · 21/12/2023 21:58

But you're fabricating things that haven't happened to suit your narrative. It's a bit boring and irrelevant.
It's normal to drive your mum around and not charge her wear and tear / vat etc.

Show quote history

I'm responding to things that the OP has said - if you think that she is fabricating this, then why bother engaging with this thread at all?

You do realise that there's no compulsion to read any posts or threads that you don't want to? If a post looks boring, or you've decided that you don't like the poster or what they tend to post, then absolutely nobody will know or care if you ignore it and scroll on by.

And if you had read my post - the one that you actually quoted - you would have seen that I specifically said that you wouldn't set a charging formula for W&T. Just that people who love and respect each other would not seek to take advantage of them and would want to pay their fair share overall.

I didn't say anything about VAT; that seems to be part of your narrative, not mine.

Moonshine5 · 22/12/2023 13:13

You made several things up about the OPs family that were never stated. That's a fact. Peace out. ✌🏼

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 22/12/2023 13:30

No, I asked a few (not unreasonable imho) questions based on the information given, and then made comments about my experiences with similar scenarios involving people that I know.

I did make a few basic assumptions that they are not hermits and that they do have a simple awareness of society, current affairs and what is happening around them.

It seems that I'm not the only one who has been invested in this! But I'm getting quite bored now.

fromhellsheartistabatthee · 31/12/2023 17:34

It sounds like a bargain to me.

Silvers11 · 31/12/2023 17:44

@Monkey987 - £60 is very low. HMRC rates for paying mileage are 45pence per mile for anyone claiming mileage. That is the amount that they deem to be the actual cost of someone using their personal vehicle for business purposes, without them making a profit from it

420 miles @ 45p per mile is Actually £189. I get that it is family, but that is a very long trip for you to be taking them anywhere. What mileage do you get in your car? £60 for 420 miles doesn't sound right even if it is JUST the cost of the petrol unless you have very good mileage on your car

Flossflower · 31/12/2023 17:46

Dustpantsandbush · 21/12/2023 06:17

Why don’t you just say no? “This is convenient for me. I won’t be able to make the trip.”

Totally agree. Why don’t they learn to drive?

Flossflower · 31/12/2023 17:48

Silvers11 · 31/12/2023 17:44

@Monkey987 - £60 is very low. HMRC rates for paying mileage are 45pence per mile for anyone claiming mileage. That is the amount that they deem to be the actual cost of someone using their personal vehicle for business purposes, without them making a profit from it

420 miles @ 45p per mile is Actually £189. I get that it is family, but that is a very long trip for you to be taking them anywhere. What mileage do you get in your car? £60 for 420 miles doesn't sound right even if it is JUST the cost of the petrol unless you have very good mileage on your car

Yes and the 45p rate hasn’t been updated since 2011/12!

coxesorangepippin · 31/12/2023 17:49

Don't understand cars and petrol?

😂😂

Aka they're skinflints??

furryfrontbottom · 31/12/2023 18:26

If anyone had the fucking gall to expect-not even ask-that I would drive for hours to get them to a gathering I wasn't even invited to, I'd tell them to go to blazes.