To think people without kids have more money?

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Than people with kids I mean. Twice this week I've had single child free friends tell me how
" lucky" I am that I have my husbands pension to " fall back on". I don't even know what that actually means, he has his pension, I have mine, we both work, 1 pension per person. Neither of us will be able to retire early. We have 2 kids. Kids cost a bloody fortune.
I sort of let it wash over me the first time, but the second remark ( different person) bugged me.
She said " Well I don't have my husbands pension to fall back on" so I said " You also don't have kids costing you a bloody fortune"
I don't care about other people's life choices, or how they spend their time or money, I honestly barely think about other people! Except today obviously 🤣
Both of these women obviously think I am financially better off than them. I've never thought about it, but how could I be??? ( we all work in the same industry btw, on similar wages)

Was about to say the same thing 😂 I think if anyone has spent time being properly single (I’m not just talking a few weeks, months) they will understand it is challenging! When I got into a relationship I kind of felt even more annoyed because I realised just how much easier life is on so many levels! Obv I’m excluding people in bad, abusive etc relationships here. I’ve also had people who become single after being in long term relationships tell me they can’t believe how much harder life is on a practical level, and I guess that’s why people probably end up staying in so so relationships (and I see a lot of that on mumsnet).

Ok, but do you now have your own place with your partner? Would you be able to have your standard of living without your partner (but with the kids), I do think having kids is a privilege if you really want to have them tbh.

I would also say it’s important to recognise just how much more expensive being single is versus being in a couple etc, if it was recognised then we could make life easier for everyone and people wouldn’t have to be so motivated to couple up for the sake of it because it does make life cheaper and easier. I know people find it hard to leave relationships because they are scared by how much harder being single is on a practical level, I know people who can’t afford to leave a partner etc and I see it a lot on mumsnet! If being single was easily less expensive and made you financially better off those issues wouldn’t be such prominent topics of conversation!

Excluding London (anomalous both in terms of salaries and living costs) the average full time salary is around £32k, so maybe £2k p/month net.

Some very rough/guessed figures:

Rent/mortgage - £800
Council tax - £125
Gas/Elec - £130
Water - £20
TV - £13
Phone/internet - £30
Home insurance - £25
Commute/petrol - £100?

Leaving approx. £750 per month for:

Food/toiletries/cleaning etc: £250
Car & running costs (if able to have one) £230
Home maintenance/repairs fund: £40
Furniture/carpet/appliance replacement fund: £40
Clothing: £25
Mobile phone £15

So perhaps £150 per month left over for:

Savings
Socialising
Holidays
Christmas/birthdays presents etc.
Anything else

I think it would be less than comfortable, for sure.

Yes, I know many people are much worse off but if that's the average earning single person I don't think it sounds great.

£800 rent/mortgage is low for anywhere where most earn £32k. There are big regional variations.

Now you can argue that having children is a choice but so is choosing to live alone and holiday alone

Perhaps we could call it the 'your fault you couldn't find a partner so you pay more, you sad bastard' tax. Why should I pay more purely because I like my own company?

Tbh I get fed up when my friend with kids goes on about "all my money" I must have because I don't have them. I think this scenario works both ways.

I think the point that is sometimes missed is that if you are single, you get to have your own space and things, which is a huge perk and often taken for granted. Many single people living alone could take in a flatmate or lodger but don't want to share their space, so it IS a choice.

There are 5 in my house, I don't have a corner of the world to call my own, even my car is the 'family car' full of everyone's junk, but that's part and parcel of having a family and I accept it. What bugs me is when my single friend moans about having to pay a single supplement on a hotel room, I feel like screaming 'but you get to have your OWN ROOM' - do you not think I would much rather get my own room too?? But no I can't afford it so I'm stuck with DH all the time. I can't imagine her being happy walking into a smelly toilet, or having someone else's stuff strewn about her bedroom, or being interrupted 3 times while trying to have a bowel movement!!

It's nothing to do with having kids from the sound of it - though I suspect you mentioned they were childless because you wanted to attract lots of parents going on about our hedonistic lifestyles and exotic holidays (ha ha as if).
It sounds like they are - rightly - pointing out that as a part of a couple you have two pensions coming into your household and, being single, they will only have one.
However that logic isn't really want you want to hear, is it.

£32k is pretty much the median once you exclude London and the regional variances aren't that huge - caveat that average of averages is never a good thing...

I don't disagree that £800 rent/mortgage is probably pretty low, but there'll be people here suggesting a bedsit or house share is fine for singles, so I thought I'd keep it reasonable.

(Chart from Statista)

Many single people living alone could take in a flatmate or lodger but don't want to share their space, so it IS a choice

Tough in my one bedroom flat, though. Why do you expect single people not to want their own space? do you take in lodgers and share yours?

My point is everyone wants their own space! Having your own space is a huge privilege and comes at a cost.

What bugs me is when my single friend moans about having to pay a single supplement on a hotel room, I feel like screaming 'but you get to have your OWN ROOM' - do you not think I would much rather get my own room too?? But no I can't afford it so I'm stuck with DH all the time.

Exactly...most single people can't afford it either so they either don't go or have to save up more and forego other things. Is it really that hard for you to understand?

Many single people living alone could take in a flatmate or lodger but don't want to share their space, so it IS a choice

And many live in one bedroom flats or studios. Plus why should single people be forced to live with a total stranger? It's hardly comparable to living with your own family.

Obviously if you had 2 people earning the same and had the same lifestyle, the one without dc would be better off as they don't have the expense of a child.

It's all down to lifestyle choices and life circumstances.

I think getting divorced is a sure fire way to ensure you're further down the financial ladder than those who don't get divorced. People who have been married a long time are far more likely to have paid off a mortgage, than those who got divorced, had to split the equity and buy again with less deposit.

Exactly. Has no one seen Single White Female?

If you are single and childfree and earning the average wage in this country, I wonder what your lifestyle would look like?

This was me a few years ago following my divorce from my abusive husband. I left with a bag full of clothes. That was it. I left everything else in the house and was not able to ever return to it as I feared for my life.
As I had no children I was left to sort myself out with no help.
I had to move away so had to leave my job. I took a NMW job in a supermarket for a while because I needed to be able to afford to rent somewhere. That somewhere was a mouldy room in a HMO full of young men who intimidated me and threatened to rape me.
Still I got no help.
I had to move again when the only job in my field was in another part of the country. I used my last weeks wages from the supermarket to put fuel in my car to drive me there. Some friends who lived in the area put me up in their spare room until I received my first month's salary from my new job. My mother then loaned me enough money for a deposit on a bedsit. I had to pay her back + interest which took 6 months during which time I could only afford to pay the rent and eat one basic meal a day. To this day I can't look at a packet of supernoodles.
It took me 5 years to get back on my feet. I never received any benefits and so continued to pay council tax at 75% throughout. When I mentioned, on occasion, what my life was really like I just got told - at least you don't have kids. Well, If i'd had kids I'd have been better off.

And for all those who say that your kids are paying for my retirement....well, I've been a taxpayer now for a good number of years without a break. Not even when I left my abusive marriage and had a breakdown because I was threatened with being raped because the only way I could stay off the streets was to live in a situation as dangerous as the one I left. I have paid into the NHS that cared for you when you gave birth, I have paid towards your children's schooling and healthcare. I have paid towards the benefits you have had because you have kids and no one wants kids to live in a dangerous situation and not have food, even f it is ok for a vulnerable, broken single, childless woman.
Now I work for the NHS and I am constantly being told that my time off is less important than yours because I have no kids. I have had to cancel a long anticipated and paid for trip over Christmas because, yet again, I have to cover for petulant parents who demand they have the time off because...kids. And as it's the doctor's strike they need senior people on duty to sort out the shit show that our hospitals now so you and your kids can get the care you need.
Am I bitter? I fucking am. Even now I can't afford to pay into the NHS pension because if I do, I can't afford my bills. That's the reality for single, childless women like me.

YABU. Completely depends on personal circumstance. I am childfree and have a much smaller income than any of my friends that have children, as does my partner. Yes they have nursery fees and extra costs etc like uniforms but still have more disposable income than I do because they earn more (and so do their partners).

We would have been very well off financially if we hadn't had children. I would have worked full time throughout my career and probably had a private practice too and DH would have taken a better paid job that involved more travel.I wouldn't have had three stretches of unpaid maternity leave. We wouldn't have had expensive childcare, education and hobbies to fund. Holidays would only have needed one room (though I bet we would have taken more!) Of course we would have been better off financially and I can't deny that there aren't times when I wonder whar a double professional income, no kids lifestyle would have been like. I mean, not that we have ever struggled but we would have lived very differently without children.But we chose to have children, because we wanted them, and we are completely happy with that decision. Financial impact is a price we were willing, and fortunately for us, able to pay. You can't have everything.
Like for like, people without children are probably have more disposable income than someone in the same job who has 3 kids - stands to reason really. So in that sense, YANBU OP. But YABU to assume that all childless people are better off than families with children.

Some people are just unable to comprehend that it is wrong to say single people have more money. How many times does it need to be explained:

Household A has 2 adults with kids and the total money coming in after tax is lets say £4k and £2k is on mortgage and bills there is £2k disposable income left

Household B has 1 adult no kids and total money coming in after tax is also £4k and £2k is on mortgage and bills and there is £2k disposable income left.

If both households have the same disposable income noone is better off than the other. They are equal.

Because Household A decided to have the experience of having kids that costs them most of their £2k disposable income but Household B decided they didn't want kids and prefers to experience the world and travel more so most of their £2k disposable income is spent on multiple holidays

As so many people keep pointing out in a like for like scenario noone is better off financially than the other in terms of disposable income. It then comes down to your choices on how you want to spend that money and in the real world its more complicated because people earn different amounts etc.

I see so we should view children and our partners in the same light as random flatmates… Riiite

Obviously the childless have more disposable income. Maybe in some long forgotten Stepford past married women had a husband’s pension to fall back on but that is not really true these days if both work.

Try being a divorced mum raising kids alone! First I had to pay DH to go away. Now I have ALL the expenses. And I pay the single supplement if I manage to go away on my own.

The kids were a choice. Being alone?….I didn’t think I had any alternative but to tell my ex to leave.

Never mind. As you say, comparison is the theft of joy and the one thing I have that the childless don’t is the children to spend their time with!! Ha!

I am a parent but that last paragraph really shines a bad light on how some parents view those without children. Grim!

Tis the season, eh?!

No. That's exactly the point being made; sharing a home with your own family is in no way even remotely comparable to having to have a random flatmate/lodger.

Who are all these single people buying up 2 bedroom + homes lol after saving up for a deposit on their own which would take them longer than 2 adults earning, somehow they can magically afford to buy big properties. 🙄