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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner

811 replies

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 17:25

My 11yo DD is autistic and she has recently started at a new school. The school have been great in supporting her.

Sadly, she went into a Science class for the first time yesterday and as they have set seats she asked the teacher where she should sit. The teacher snapped at her that she didn't know and she had to stand at the front of the class waiting for the others to sit down which really unsettled and upset her.

Today was their Christmas dinner day and they could go in wearing pyjamas. She was really looking forward to this. But as we got closer to school this morning she got more and more distressed. Once in school she had a full on meltdown that went on for ages. Eventually she calmed down enough for me to leave and they took her up to the Learning support centre where she promptly fell asleep exhausted after her melt down. She missed her Christmas dinner! After a while they asked me to come and pick her up. I feel so sad for her. I'd spent a lot of time preparing her for the Christmas dinner and it was going to be a nice way to introduce her to the canteen. And she was so looking forward to it. All spoilt because a teacher took her bad mood out on her.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 23:26

Boomboom22 · 19/12/2023 19:23

Why didn't the lsa sort it if she is there to help your dd? You are being ridiculous about the teacher.

She helps others in the class too and she did sort it.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 23:27

Candycurrantbun · 19/12/2023 19:25

The teacher shouldn't have snapped at all. We all have shit days at work,most of us are professional enough not to snap at people because we are in a bad mood.

I agree

OP posts:
Mariposistaa · 19/12/2023 23:29

Right so this one incident is reflective of the entire education system now is it? The whole school is a minefield of traps just waiting to catch your child out?

The teacher snapped - not ideal but it’s hardly the crime of the year. she hardly hurled insults, yelled, humiliated or swore. Most would bat it off. you cannot expect the whole world to tread on eggshells on the off chance they will come across that 5% or whatever the figure is who cannot cope with it.

wandawaves · 19/12/2023 23:33

I'm going to actually answer your AIBU.... no, YANBU to feel sad about Christmas lunch. You've spent so much time and energy prepping your DD for the lunch. You know that if she coped and even enjoyed the lunch, it would then have a follow on effect where it increased her confidence, and then she could've looked forward to other stressful events and used the lunch as an example of "well I was so nervous about it, but I did it anyway and it went really well".

YANBU to be frustrated at the teacher's comment (if it did indeed happen that way... but I wasn't there, so I'm not going to argue). My child has several mental health diagnoses, and despite explaining to all adults in her life the impact of a snappy comment vs the impact of a positive comment, it still happens. And the utter frustration of it happening is really difficult as a parent, because you know that that 3 second comment will have set back your child weeks, and all your hard work and your child's hard work building up to this moment has gone down the drain. So I get it.

The other thing I will say is that are you sure a transition to classes is the right approach for her? My child's anxiety causes huge FOMO, and she would've found it really stressful to have missed the first class in any subject, knowing that everyone else would know the teacher/each other/the seating plan, and she didn’t.
Perhaps if she really can't cope with going straight into the full timetable, then maybe the school should arrange her to go outside of class time and find the room, meet the teacher, find out where she is supposed to sit, so that when she goes for the first time, she doesn't have to be 'different' to the other kids and can go straight to sit down.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 23:34

EnidSpyton · 19/12/2023 19:26

But the seating plan obviously hadn't been done in advance. There was no seating plan ready with your daughter in it. This is why she had to wait.

Which suggests the teacher didn't know your daughter was joining that morning, or did know, but wasn't given enough notice and/or didn't have enough time to sort out the seating plan in advance. It is very, very odd to have your daughter join a new class midweek at the end of term. So I'm confused as to how this situation even happened - there's been some strange choices from the school there. Surely starting her in the class could have waited until January?

Please try and understand that the teacher's actions aren't malicious here. Teachers are massively overworked during the school day and we receive hundreds of emails about the hundreds of students we teach. Sometimes we drop the ball. She's admitted she did. I don't see that continuing to blame this teacher is helping you, or your daughter.

I might also add that some SEN/support staff in schools are very good at telling parents what they want to hear and saying that they've communicated X, Y, Z to all the teachers, when actually they've done very little to support teachers with specific students. Increasingly SEN/pastoral staff are non-teaching and have no idea what it's like to be juggling a teacher's workload. Their expectations of teachers can be hugely unrealistic, and they pass those hugely unrealistic expectations onto parents, so that when things go wrong, they can point the finger elsewhere.

Show quote history

It's high school so they have different classes and teachers over a 2 week period. As already explained she started 3 weeks ago on a transition. She only has each single Science once a fortnight so hadn't had this class yet.

I've never said the teacher was malicious. I don't think that for a moment. I don't know what you mean by continuing to blame her? I've not blamed her in real life. I've not spoken to my DD about it being a brief chat.

It was the headteacher that I spoke to and I honestly don't think she was just telling me what I wanted to hear but we'll see.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 23:36

TinselTitts · 19/12/2023 19:26

The LSA actually said the teacher snapped at your daughter, or did they say something different?

She apparently said the teacher snapped at my DD according to the headteacher.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 23:38

Mirabai · 19/12/2023 19:26

Kindly OP, this is the reality for an ASD child at a mainstream school. This kind of thing will happen a lot - on a daily basis, so you and DD need to get used to it. Each child is so, so different and some can cope with the hectic bustle of school and some get completely overwhelmed. If you feel that DD will not be able to cope with multiple events of this nature, I would consider specialist school if at all possible.

This is her 4th week and it has only happened once so luckily not on a daily basis as specialist school is not possible.

OP posts:
User2346 · 20/12/2023 00:17

Jesus I would love to know where all these Specialist schools are that posters are suggesting. In my county there are none for high functioning autism.

The ignorance of some of the replies are downright depressing and highlights the anti SEN attitude that is rife on mumsnet at the moment.

lostonmars · 20/12/2023 01:00

This reply has been deleted

This is a goady troll so we've removed their posts.

You personally?

lostonmars · 20/12/2023 01:02

YANBU. And I hate how everyone is claiming that her meltdown wasn't caused by the teacher. How would they know?

lostonmars · 20/12/2023 01:09

MalcolmsMiddle · 19/12/2023 20:43

Nothing factual in your posts can confirm the teacher did this.

Show quote history

What proof will you accept?

NotAdultingToday · 20/12/2023 01:30

YANBU Oh op your poor dd! Of course you are allowed to be upset for her what happened was not her fault. I hope she is ok and it wont affect the rest of her christmas.

As an aside ND or not being snapped at by a new teacher in a new setting would upset anyone? Why are people being so unsympathetic?
Imagine starting new job out of your comfort zone and a manager doing that? You would you would at the very least feel uncomfortable/embarrassed? Or am i missing something and its ok to speak to people like that?

WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 01:46

FrownedUpon · 19/12/2023 18:15

We do children no favours by removing all stressful or triggering situations for them. It means they never learn to cope and see that they can manage anxiety and feeling upset. In my school, we’ve been advised to stop allowing SEN pupils to avoid assemblies etc, but to support them in coping and it’s incredible how their confidence and ability to manage anxious situations has increased.

That’s appalling. It’s also contrary to the Equality Act.

You’re not teaching resilience here, you’re teaching masking.

It’s exactly like ‘supporting’ a child who uses a wheelchair to climb the stairs, and then congratulating yourself on how well they have ‘coped’ when they drag themselves upstairs on their bum and don’t complain about it. Because after all, stairs are everywhere and we do them no favours if they don’t learn to cope.

WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 01:47

OP, the responses here are appalling. And completely lacking in empathy for your dd and you. You’re allowed to be sad that she missed Christmas lunch. You’re allowed to be sad that she was let down and put in that position. It does happen, but it’s not ok.

29andLost · 20/12/2023 05:43

Bertiesmum3 · 19/12/2023 20:58

When does everyone’s schools finish for Christmas??
Everyone who I know, they all finished last Friday!

This Friday

mrscatwoman · 20/12/2023 06:24

The thing that makes me uncomfortable about this thread is all the comments about how the LSA and and HT have all agreed with or told the OP that the teacher was out of order. I'm sorry, but I have know both SLT and LSAs to totally push teachers under a bus to parents. Many (not all, obviously) LSAs have quite an inappropriate relationship with the parents they deal with and tell them anything they want to hear. I once had to disband a group of Y10 students among the other classes after one of our teachers had an accident and went on long-term sick unexpectedly. We knew we couldn't get decent supply and it was Y10 and classes quite small we decided to disband them. No one had told me there was an autistic boy in the class who had had reasonable adjustments made throughout school and would not cope with this. His LSA wasn't there when I went in as he doesn't have someone with him all the time. He and a couple of others were to be in my class and, after disbanding the others I said, in what I thought was a friendly/normal voice, "Right, you three are with me in X room, let's go." He refused to come in my room and I was later accidentally copied into an email thread with his mum saying he didn't like me, didn't like the way I spoke to him and couldn't understand a word I said! The SLT link to his year group had then replied agreeing with her and saying he would get the boy moved from my class - he hadn't even spoken to me at that point! He just wanted an easy life and wanted to tell both me and the mum what we wanted to hear. That upset me and left me questioning how I had spoken and what I had said that was so awful. Now time has passed I can see he wouldn't have coped with the sudden change but we as a school, normally great for SEND with parents choosing us for this reason, let him down due to the sudden nature of the issue we faced with the teacher's accident.

Sorry, but Heads should support their teachers and this can be done while still being respectful to parents and acknowledging their concerns. This didn't happen here and with the LSA doing nothing to support the child at the time but then talking to mum about how awful the teacher's behaviour was, I feel like it's a bit of an indictment of the school, and could well at least partly explain the teacher's snappiness!

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 07:02

Smerpsmorp · 19/12/2023 19:30

Umm - my class lists got changed last week with no notice. They had to go to their previous teacher to ask for their folder. I had to bring in another table from another class. As it went from 30-32 which I don’t have the space for.

if this is mainstream state school, the teacher was at the end of their tether - probably juggling about 5 different scenarios at one time. The teacher has apologised, and likely apologised when it happened. Not sure you can hold them to account any more than that. No it shouldn’t happen, teachers make mistakes.

if your child doesn’t have a TA, then frankly there’s not much hope of adapting to this level of autism. No she shouldn’t have snapped but different teachers have different tones, and your DDs meltdown was not specifically related to this particular incident and it’s not feasible to blame the teacher or anyone really, especially once they’ve apologised. They’ve learnt how to better deal with your daughter, and it will improve moving forwards (hopefully).

missing Christmas dinner in secondary school is really not that bad - it’s usually vile anyway………!!!!

Show quote history

I've not heard anything about an apology but it's fine, yes, we all make mistakes.

Her meltdown was specifically linked to that incident. All other teachers have been fine 'adapting to this level of autism.' The school have been fine with it and have many other pupils with the same level of need.

Christmas dinner wasn't about the actual food it was about being able to celebrate with her form and have fun.

OP posts:
PatienceOfEngels · 20/12/2023 07:03

I'm a secondary school teacher (and parent of a child with ASD).

If I had a student with ASD attending my class for the first time I would have been informed. I would have read the student's IEP.

Any new student attending a class for at the first time would have a buddy student to help them.

If I have assigned seats/seating plan then I would know which seats are free and therefore where to place them, I wouldn't have to wait for all the students to sit down.

The two incidents (science and meltdown) are not necessarily directly related as I think many of my ASD students would be unsettled simply by the pyjama day and/or the Christmas dinner, but it would not have helped in the big picture.

It's always a really difficult time of year for students with additional needs. You know your daughter best OP and what she needs to be able to cope. There will always be things which you'd like her to be able to cope with/experience which she struggles with. It's one of the things I've had to come to terms with as a parent of a ND child.

In your shoes I would be letting her tutor know that this experience was difficult for her. As a teacher I'd also want to know if a student had been affected like this so I could adjust my approach.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 07:04

TinselTitts · 19/12/2023 19:31

Is there any chance going to school in her pyjamas could've added to it all?

No, that was a real positive for her! She was nervous about using the canteen but was managing to cope, this incident tipped her over the edge.

OP posts:
EarringsandLipstick · 20/12/2023 07:05

Her meltdown was specifically linked to that incident

This was not stated in your OP. How do you know this?

I think you have been deeply unfair about the teacher in this situation.

That doesn't mean you are BU to be upset that DD missed the event; but you are to blame the teacher.

You've also shown complete indifference to the posts by many teachers here explaining how challenging their roles are and that mistakes may happen, but they do their best. It sounds like in this instance the person letting your DD down was the LSA, more than the teacher.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 07:06

EnidSpyton · 19/12/2023 19:31

Teaching nursery aged children is a VERY different ballgame to teaching teenagers.

Try dealing with a class of 30 16 year olds giving you aggro, swearing at you, calling you a c* and telling you to fuck off. Sometimes they throw things around the room at each other, or start beating each other up. Sometimes they deliberately push you to breaking point because some teenagers can be nasty and malicious and enjoy breaking a teacher they don't like. Thankfully I've not experienced any of that behaviour, but I've got many colleagues who have, on a daily basis.

Dealing with that kind of behaviour is not quite the same as having to remind cute little toddlers to stop running around the room. Which is why sometimes those of us teaching teenagers all day, every day, might occasionally get a bit snappy. I think we can be forgiven for it.

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None of that behaviour happens at this school.

OP posts:
43ontherocksporfavor · 20/12/2023 07:08

Happens on every school. Do you work there ?

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 07:12

Mirabai · 19/12/2023 19:32

To be fair she could easily have another 5 SEN kids in the class who struggle with x and y, then kids with highly problematic home lives, and a fair number for whom English is not their first language and may be a refugee. That’s what a teacher is walking into the classroom with, with very little specific SEN training and no prior acquaintance with your child.

If you think now you’ve spoken to head this won’t happen again - it will happen all the time. I think you need to manage your expectations of what mainstream school will be like.

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Yes, I do understand that. Luckily, it is a small school so this kind of thing should be minimal. I hope now that this particular teacher will not do it but yes, I'm under no illusion it could happen again. However, she has met most of her teachers now and had no previous problems so I feel it is unlikely to happen 'all the time.' It was just sad it happened the day before Christmas dinner.

OP posts:
Mumof2NDers · 20/12/2023 07:14

PamelaParis · 19/12/2023 17:53

It was hardly a "trauma", come on.
OP I agree with others that you need to work on your DD's resilience.

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Out if interest do you have a ND child? It really doesn’t take much to unsettle them. My DS is 16 and ND. A couple of weeks ago I took him for an interview. We got there early which was a huge mistake! He doesn’t do early, early means waiting! He was already nervous and then on top of that early! He got totally overwhelmed and walked out (before the interview). It’s heartbreaking watching your child struggle with things that a lot of children would take in their stride!

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 07:16

LIZS · 19/12/2023 19:33

"Snapped" or just put on the spot and had to pause to think? Was it really that long before she was seated or just felt that to your dc?

She snapped, but I'm sure it felt longer for my DD than it actually was. If the teacher had told her she would tell her where to sit in a moment or something it wouldn't have been so bad, it was the fact that she gave no instruction that left DD not knowing what to do.

OP posts: