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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner

811 replies

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 17:25

My 11yo DD is autistic and she has recently started at a new school. The school have been great in supporting her.

Sadly, she went into a Science class for the first time yesterday and as they have set seats she asked the teacher where she should sit. The teacher snapped at her that she didn't know and she had to stand at the front of the class waiting for the others to sit down which really unsettled and upset her.

Today was their Christmas dinner day and they could go in wearing pyjamas. She was really looking forward to this. But as we got closer to school this morning she got more and more distressed. Once in school she had a full on meltdown that went on for ages. Eventually she calmed down enough for me to leave and they took her up to the Learning support centre where she promptly fell asleep exhausted after her melt down. She missed her Christmas dinner! After a while they asked me to come and pick her up. I feel so sad for her. I'd spent a lot of time preparing her for the Christmas dinner and it was going to be a nice way to introduce her to the canteen. And she was so looking forward to it. All spoilt because a teacher took her bad mood out on her.

OP posts:
adviceneeded1990 · 19/12/2023 22:03

@UndertheCedartree

“The head teacher has told me that she doesn't think it was good enough, either. “

The head said this without having heard the teachers version of events? And the LSA discussed her own opinion of whether or not the teacher “snapped” with you, a parent?!

The school 100% has problems with professionalism and the head has opened herself up to trade union action!

Malvasylvestris · 19/12/2023 22:04

I am a science teacher and I would not snap at a y7 child for asking a reasonable question. Adults in authority should model the behaviours they want to see in others.

If the teacher has admitted being in a bad mood and snapping, a discussion involving an apology could help?

SadKenny · 19/12/2023 22:04

43ontherocksporfavor · 19/12/2023 22:00

Underfunding equals stretched teachers.

This.

I know several teachers, and I know how absolutely close to the edge they are, especially this year.

I sympathise with OPs DD. I'm autistic.

But I also can't help but sympathise with the teacher too. Teachers are underpaid, overworked, work hours of overtime with no award, and are needed to be everything to everyone. Teaching is one of the most gruelling professions in this country and I can see why they're leaving in droves.

Beautiful3 · 19/12/2023 22:05

Aw I feel sorry for your daughter. I'd contact the head of year, and ask for a little chat. See how they could improve with her.

carolsandchristmas · 19/12/2023 22:06

Woo I feel very invested in this thread. As a mum of an ASD child who loves school and copes well with changes in routine.
I also work with autistic child on a daily basis.

I am absolutely shocked by the ignorance on this thread. Secondary school it may be. Stretched teachers there are. But ultimately at ELEVEN, the child is still just that; a child. With neurodiversity. Who just needed a bit of compassion in a new school.

If I rocked up at a new job and a member of staff spoke to me like that because I asked a reasonable question, I would question it all.

OP, as your daughter grows, she will learn to manage herself in these stressful situations. But at the moment it is not possible. She will get there and she will encounter people in all walks of life. But when teachers and school are meant to be a safe place and her experience wasn't what she expected, then I don't blame her for reacting purely on her anxiety. Autism is all about anxiety. And the next time this may happen, she will cope better.

You're clearly a great mum who has her daughter's best interest at heart.

The teacher in question won't be questioning herself at all. She will just remember in future and maybe talk to your daughter at some point.

I've witnessed worse from teachers with infant aged children. It's scary. It shouldn't be okay. No matter how stretched teachers may be.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 22:10

WombatChocolate · 19/12/2023 18:28

It’s hard isn’t it. And lots of things are hard.

Your DD is easily overwhelmed. Schools have min-portraits if their needs and info is sent to teachers and lots of effort is made to make things easier…..but things like this crop up still. A teacher finds themselves with your DD who hasn’t received the info…and easily something which is difficult for your DD occurs.

Huge amounts of effort are made to get messages out to people and often teachers are receiving 50 or more emails per day and details about loads of students which comes short notice. It’s almost impossible for everyone to know in advance about every child they will encounter and be prepared for their meeting with them. It is the reality and however much effort and planning is out in, with schools being busy places and teachers seeing maybe 300 students in a week and things changing fast, things always will slip through the net.

OP, I can see you’re disappointed and I’m sure there are lots of disappointments like this and life with an autistic DD is hard and lots of things happen like this. Sometimes schools and other places are doing a bad job and letting children down. But not every experience like todays is a sign of this. The reality is that things like what happened today will happen and happen again, even with huge amounts of effort put in to smooth the way for her. You’re right to be disappointed but it’s not right to let this overwhelm you or for an instance like this to lead you to see the teacher as unprepared or unkind or the cause if all the incidents of the day.

I’m sorry, but there will be days like this…and with so many many cogs in the school wheel, last minute changes and decisions, and the fact your DD finds these kind of things so difficult, bad days will happen. You won’t achieve a perfect environment for her within a school like this. If there are lots of good scenarios and positives, you’re basically winning. Some fails and disappointments will happen, even though you’d like them all eliminated. Quite simply they can’t and won’t be.

Fine to be disappointed for her. You need to keep it in perspective and know too that sometimes with teachers looking out for maybe 150 kids in a day and messaging not getting through and quite simply them having too many balls to juggle, your DD won’t get the personalised care she needs.

I agree with you. Things will go wrong. There will be ups and downs.

I haven't said this is a sign of the school doing a bad job. The fact they were so on it shows what a good job they are doing! Effort is put in to smooth the way for her but it will always be harder in many, many ways. I don't expect anything to be perfect, considering that perfect doesn't exist. And I'm fully aware I'm winning - this was why I fought so hard for this school! I wouldn't say I'd like all disappointments eliminated that just seems an illogical thing to hope for.

And yes, I'm sad and disappointed for her. And all it would have taken was a bit of courtesy from the teacher to make such a difference. And yes, that disappoints me. I'm pretty sure I have it in perspective. I've not complained about it in real life, I've put a positive spin on it for my DD.

OP posts:
43ontherocksporfavor · 19/12/2023 22:12

And you’re totally fine for your Dd to be left sleeping past her lunch? That’s ok?

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 22:13

doglover90 · 19/12/2023 18:32

I don't understand why people post AIBU threads when they've clearly made their mind up and nothing people say will make any difference.

Well, barely anyone has commented on the AIBU, have they? Which was AIBU to feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner? Any comments on that most welcome.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 22:14

StrawberryJellyBelly · 19/12/2023 18:33

Learn resilience?

Fuck me.

Every child with a disability who gets up day in and day ready to put in another day under the most difficult of circumstances doesn’t need to learn about resilience. They’re already the very meaning of the word. They know all about it. They are resilience!

They absolutely are!

OP posts:
43ontherocksporfavor · 19/12/2023 22:15

Still you haven’t said what the teacher said! Just ‘snapped’ .

43ontherocksporfavor · 19/12/2023 22:16

School Christmas dinner is basic roast dinner btw so no she didn’t miss much.

Vettrianofan · 19/12/2023 22:19

Your DD can enjoy Christmas dinner next year. It's our job to help children cope when things don't always work out for them.

Vettrianofan · 19/12/2023 22:21

One of mine had his today at school and really enjoyed steak pie. His friend however had turkey and said it was disgusting.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 22:21

rosesinmygarden · 19/12/2023 18:35

Yanbu to feel a bit sad. But please, just leave it at that and put it in perspective.

Honestly, while the teacher may have 'snapped' at your dd. I seriously doubt it was intentional. It will likely have happened in the stress of the moment in the last week of term when they had a million other things to deal with. It's not great, but teachers are human too. The teacher is unlikely to have done it to purposely upset your dd. I'm sure it wasn't personal. It's probably not the last time something like this will happen, either.

You can dwell on it take it very personally and be angry with an exhausted human being trying to get through the last week of term.

Or, you can chalk it up as something that happened and sounds like it's going to be dealt with, and move on.

You have no idea what else that teacher had to deal with that day.

New start in January when things at school are calmer for everyone, maybe?

I have left it at that. And no, I don't think it was intentional or personal. I mean clearly if I did I would be raising it with the school. I've not dwelled on this teacher (can't say the same for most of the posters!) or taken it personally, nor am I angry at the teacher. Yes, I'm disappointed she wasn't polite to my DD. But yes, it's certainly been dealt with thoroughly. However, personally I don't think there is any excuse for rudeness. I've been through all sorts but have never been rude to students/colleagues/patients as I don't think it is appropriate as a professional.

OP posts:
Gnomegnomegnome · 19/12/2023 22:23

Bless her!

I can’t believe people on this thread!
She should get used to it? Fuck off.
It’s part of life? Fuck off.

Why is the world so unaccepting of people who have different needs?
Why should people with autism need to learn to fit in?

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 22:28

gotomomo · 19/12/2023 18:36

Not the teachers fault and yes those with autism need to learn resilience, I was determined that my dd could live in our world because quite frankly nobody is going to do things differently for her once she's out of education.

Asking a new pupil to wait until the existing children are seated is absolutely fine, those kids may have issues too for all you know.

My dd is an adult now and I honestly think that we do kids no favours giving them special treatment at secondary school, was always suggesting she was segregated and sent to special school and I fought for mainstream, she graduates university this summer without adjustments!

If you have an autistic DD I'm sure you are aware how much resilience they display on a daily basis! Reasonable adjustments exist outside of education.

Please read the OP. My DD was not asked to wait until the existing DC were seated. And yes, those DC may have issues to - not sure how that is relevant?

My DD is not given 'special treatment' she is given support to access an education that is her right. My autistic DS is at college doing T levels and doing very well. Well done to your DD but that in no way means someone who requires reasonable adjustments should be excluded from education just because your DD managed! ASD is a spectrum disorder, after all.

OP posts:
Kangaboo · 19/12/2023 22:28

I am also surprised that you don't seem to have taken issue with the fact she spent morning and lunchtime sleeping at school, missing those lessons. That to me would be a bigger issue.

SkinOffNose · 19/12/2023 22:29

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 22:13

Well, barely anyone has commented on the AIBU, have they? Which was AIBU to feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner? Any comments on that most welcome.

Show quote history

Excuse my ignorance but do you think staff should have tried to wake her up for the dinner? Or would that have made things a million times worse?

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 19/12/2023 22:31

What exactly do you think the teacher should have done differently?

Emeraldrings · 19/12/2023 22:32

EnidSpyton · 19/12/2023 19:31

Teaching nursery aged children is a VERY different ballgame to teaching teenagers.

Try dealing with a class of 30 16 year olds giving you aggro, swearing at you, calling you a c* and telling you to fuck off. Sometimes they throw things around the room at each other, or start beating each other up. Sometimes they deliberately push you to breaking point because some teenagers can be nasty and malicious and enjoy breaking a teacher they don't like. Thankfully I've not experienced any of that behaviour, but I've got many colleagues who have, on a daily basis.

Dealing with that kind of behaviour is not quite the same as having to remind cute little toddlers to stop running around the room. Which is why sometimes those of us teaching teenagers all day, every day, might occasionally get a bit snappy. I think we can be forgiven for it.

Show quote history

Cute little toddlers who bite, strangle, kick, scream in your face you mean? I don't doubt some teenagers are horrible but quite frankly there are horrible people everywhere.
I think teachers need to accept some children have additional needs and it makes me sick to hear so many excusing unprofessional behaviour. It's not okay to take your mood out on anyone at work, no matter what the job. Look how many times people have complained about rude retail staff and certain people always agree that behaviour is unacceptable. Yet it's okay to take your mood out on a teenager with additional needs.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 22:33

peebles32 · 19/12/2023 18:42

I don't think anyone has an idea how difficult things are in school now. I have been a SEND teacher and now work in mainstream.
Personally I feel children progress so much better in an environment that is specific to their needs and I think mainstream school lets them down. There is not the money, resources and staff for children with SEND to flourish in mainstream.
The teacher was probably stressed which does not help your daughter. However, she probably does not have the staff support and training. It's sad but it is the way it is.
It is a complete and utter mess at the moment but I know if my child had autism I would be searching for a specialist school.

There isn't the specialist provision leaving huge amounts of ASD DC being home educated. This school is small, calm and excellent with SEN. The reason I fought for it for my DD. So far it's been really great. I also know that unlike specialist provision they stretch the DC academically too. One of the biggest pulls was also it being a specialist art academy.

OP posts:
MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 19/12/2023 22:34

adviceneeded1990 · 19/12/2023 22:03

@UndertheCedartree

“The head teacher has told me that she doesn't think it was good enough, either. “

The head said this without having heard the teachers version of events? And the LSA discussed her own opinion of whether or not the teacher “snapped” with you, a parent?!

The school 100% has problems with professionalism and the head has opened herself up to trade union action!

Can people stop expecting there is any other response than 'burn the teacher she's a bitch'?

Hercisback · 19/12/2023 22:36

YANBU to feel sad.

But why write such a thread if not to vilify the teacher?

peebles32 · 19/12/2023 22:39

Mirabai · 19/12/2023 19:26

Kindly OP, this is the reality for an ASD child at a mainstream school. This kind of thing will happen a lot - on a daily basis, so you and DD need to get used to it. Each child is so, so different and some can cope with the hectic bustle of school and some get completely overwhelmed. If you feel that DD will not be able to cope with multiple events of this nature, I would consider specialist school if at all possible.

Perfect answer!

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 22:41

WombatChocolate · 19/12/2023 18:43

I’ve just read your last post OP.

If your DD is to be in mainstream school and you yourself are to cope with having her there and getting her through, you are going to have to accept that everything will not go exactly as planned.

Teachers are humans. There will be instances where the latest info hasn’t been read by everyone or where a change of plan or timetable means a teacher encounters a child they weren’t aware was coming…or has forgotten was coming. These things happen and can’t be totally avoided. People will sometimes speak with a tone which isn’t so friendly. It happens. You will never have everyone, every day (including ourselves) saying exactly the right thing and in the right tone.

I get that these things make a bigger difference to your DD than to most - she is easily thrown off track. I get that you wanted this to be a special day for her and it didn’t work out. That is disappointing…but you move forward and some of that involves accepting things won’t be perfect and not seeking to apportion blame with everything, but accepting these things happen.

What happens next? Do you want to accept this as one of those things and move on from it? Do you want to contact school and talk about what happened (without apportioning blame) and things that can be done to try to help avoid it in future? Do you want to complain about this teacher? I’m not quite clear if you’re venting on here and will then move on, or if you want next steps??

Regular contact with school and regular discussion about things that work well and less well and working together to make adjustments to help your DD, rather than looking to blame is probably the best way to make progress. And you have to know that progress can happen but won’t be linear or necessarily fast and there will be bad days. You know that. And sadly, you also have to know that the funding and demands and resourcing of schools mean your DD is unlikely to get the level of support from every teacher that she might need….the communication and time that each individual teacher can put into making things work for her, whilst doing everything else they have to do, will never be as much as it needs to be. Comi png to terms with that and working out what can it be compromised in and what is unacceptable, vs what is a bit disappointing and not ideal, but to be accepted as a consequence if an over-stretched system, is something you will have to decide.

Hope tomorrow is a better day.

I know things won't be perfect and I've not looked to apportion blame. I've explained on here what happened and why I was disappointed but I've not complained about this teacher or anything! I've not vilified her to my DD. Just said maybe she was having a bad day and let's hope she's in a better mood next time. We know she was wrong to be rude but yes, noone is perfect!

I'm just venting. I've already spoken to school about it instigated by them. And I absolutely always have worked with school like that. I totally agree it is the best way.

Thank you.

OP posts: