Tone-deaf family members following MIL’s death

[JaneDoe72]

Just double checking my own instincts here, since I very much want to tell my MIL’s sister to get stuffed.
The background: MIL passed away yesterday morning. For the past year, she’s been in a care home, as she had advancing dementia. Her death was not unexpected as she’d been going downhill drastically in the last 2 weeks. Nevertheless, we were all very sad when we received the news at just gone 10am yesterday morning.
MIL’s sister (let’s call her Debbie) had been with MIL when she died and was the one to break the news. Empathy isn’t Debbie’s strongest suit, as shown by the fact that she informed the family, including MIL’s children, through a note on Facebook Messenger.
A mere two and a half hours later, Debbie messaged DH saying ‘this may be a bit mercenary but [MIL’s] room will need to be cleared fairly quickly, they will charge you till it’s cleared. So you’ll have to do that.’ DH was gobsmacked that anyone could be so tone deaf as to hassle him about clearing his mother’s room when she’s quite literally not even cold yet, so did not respond.
Today I find that since DH failed to respond, Debbie’s been nagging SIL about the same thing. I pointed out to Debbie that the room’s paid for till the end of the month and IMO the family could take a couple of days to grieve before clearing out MIL’s belongings, and she’s getting proper sniffy with me.
Would I be unreasonable to tell her to get nobbled, and at least pretend she has a shred of empathy?

@BIossomtoes I meant £2200 per week 🙈 - that was in London though but I imagine it’s not far off elsewhere.

When our dad died in a nursing home one of the first things the manager asked was when could we clear his room. They said we'd have to pay a separate charge for every day room was out of use.
Someone took step mum home and my sister and I cleared it there and then. Packing in anger meant it didn't take very long.

Please don't judge her sister.

In hospital or hospice, you have at most an hour or two of the body being left there, then removed, then their stuff being removed if you don't take it away yourself. All very sympathetic, and I guess it feels a little differently if it's where they live, but usually people's things are moved on very quickly.

If she’s died in hospital you would have had to clear the room/
belongings within hours. That room is now needed for someone else just get it cleared.

Yet 1 day later, here you are starting a thread on a forum used by millions, to bitch about someone who has just lost her sister.

You're not covering yourself in glory here either OP.

I think you're being harsh. She was with her sister when she died. The care home have told her some stuff to pass on to the next of kin. Maybe she was worried about breaking down if she called or she had a lot of people to call and didn't feel up to it. If she hadn't told you about the room and it had cost you money that you weren't expecting then maybe that would have annoyed you as well. Maybe she could have been more empathetic but expecting something that she struggles with, at a time when she is already struggling, isn't really fair

she informed the family, including MIL’s children, through a note on Facebook Messenger.

That is totally bonkers, and I fail to see how anyone thinks this is even remotely appropriate!

As for the other practical stuff, that's absolutely fine.

Perhaps it's different but when my mum died very recently of an infection with underlying dementia I (her only child; she was also an only child) informed all of her surviving relatives and friends via a separate chat message. I was in no position to cope with the emotions that people put on you - grief, guilt, memories of a person who had really not existed for many years but who they think is still that person - when they are informed that someone has died. I was also with my mum until shortly before she died and it is an exhausting and emotional experience. I don't blame her at all for choosing that method of contact - she probably felt that she had to tell people quickly and telling everyone at once was the best way. I personally would rather receive a text message with the option to call if that was useful for me but I realise that's a very personal thing.

If she wasn't there when your MIL died then it sounds likely that your husband and the rest of the family were happy for her to be the point of contact between home and family - the home must have called her first?

Finally, yes, you are under massive pressure to clear the room. My mother died on the Friday morning and we were told it could wait until Monday. I have no issue with that given how long it took for my mum to be transferred there from hospital a few years ago and how damaging every extra moment in a hospital environment was to her cognitive ability. I also could not bear my mum's stuff just sitting there without her and perhaps that is how your MIL's sister feels. If your DH can't face the clearing now he needs to speak to the home himself about it or perhaps you can do that for him.

Huge condolences for your DH's loss, OP, but your MIL's sister has gone through a huge amount here too and knew her longer than any of you. It's a massive chunk of her past that has disappeared. Try and look at this from her point of view as well as everyone else's.

Two comments from personal experience - passing of mother though, not a MIL.

1. As I would be with her when she passed - this was during lockdown when a compassionate nurse permitted to stay with her for the last week of life - close family said to me I did not need to phone them individually when she passed but simply to text if that would be less upsetting for me. And the last thing I was to worry about etiquette at such a time. (Though in the event I didn't text but phone).

2). My sister went into hyperdrive with clearing and admin immediately on her passing - well, as soon as she could physically get there. I find this quite upsetting but recognise this was her way of processing her grief. (And, no, she wasn't first on the scene to pilfer items

Just remembered that the nurse caring for my mum asked me to speak to funeral directors whilst she was still alive, when I had come out from sitting with her. Care homes are intimately acquainted with death and very pragmatic about it. In the same call where they told me my mother had passed, in the small hours, they also told me that I would need to arrange for her body to be moved and that I would need to clear the room in the next couple of days. They weren't being unkind at all, that's just how it is.

Not RTFT but this:

“I think you are being very hard on her. It sounds as if she was trying to be helpful as she did say it might sound a bit mercenary and the home would have almost certainly asked her about it. As sad as it is, when someone dies decisions have to be made fairly quickly. People have been outraged to find their relative’s possessions boxed up when they haven’t been able to come in good time. She’s grieving too, she’s there and she’s trying to sort stuff out. It has to be done and your DH should be making his way over to help.”

She’s lost her sister - someone who has been in her life since childhood and whom she was with at the end - and all you can do is complain about how she’s handling things and talk about telling her to butt out. Where’s your empathy, OP? You talk like she and her feelings count for nothing. Do you think it’s only the younger generation who matter?

Oh that’s a bit brutal @CarterBeatsTheDevil. I was asked which funeral director we were using and the care home made the arrangements.

Many years ago I worked in a call centre, specifically the Bereavement department. It was a well-known company. Sometimes people would ring to inform us of the death of their relative on the very day it had happened. I found it unsettling at first but it became clear that “practical mode” is a coping mechanism sometimes.

This job predated Facebook but I can imagine that these callers would have used social media to communicate too, had it existed. I do think that this method is not appropriate when it’s the deceased’s own children being told, though. But cut her some slack I suppose, it’s just her way of dealing with the thought of never seeing her sibling again.

I am sorry for your loss and for the fact that your family has had to deal with a dementia diagnosis - it’s an awful illness.

It is mercenary. I had to clear my days care home room into black bags while we waited waited the ambulance to take her to the hospice. The hospice couldn't wait a day for me to clear her room there after she died, they put absolutely everything into a plastic bag, including soiled clothing, and had it waiting for me to collect. I binned it after realising what was in there.

I’m still reeling that she broke the news to MIL’s children that their mum had died with a group message on Facebook Messenger, tbh.

I'm not. Given that she was with her sister when she died she may have felt too emotional to make a phone call. Should she have texted ot posted it on WhatsApp instead?

I think Messenger was fine.

she informed the family, including MIL’s children, through a note on Facebook Messenger.
That is totally bonkers, and I fail to see how anyone thinks this is even remotely appropriate!

@fingerguns I fail to see how you think it might not have been the best option for the sister - see my comment above.

For what it's worth, when my mother died the home refunded us for the period after the room was vacated. So your MIL's sister may well have a valid point.

Telling everyone all at once is eminently practical and saves the poor woman having to make dozens of phone calls.

Honestly, I'd probably do the same. Bring practical is a coping mechanism and makes some feel useful in situations where we have no real control.

I'm sorry for your loss but I really don't think Debbie has done anything wrong.

My mum died on 9th in hospital where she had been for 8 weeks. We had to clear her cubicle out straight away. There was quite a lot of stuff.

I agree with you @CandyLeBonBon.
I think you need to have more sympathy for the sister @JaneDoe72

When my Dad died, I cleared out his room the next afternoon. I live abroad, so arrived the afternoon, my Mum picked me up and we went straight to the home where I cleared out the room while she waited outside. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done, but it was necessary because there were living people who desperately needed care waiting for that room, and we weren't going to leave them waiting.

When my Dad died, my Mum called me and then I called lots of people to inform them. It was horrible making that call over and over again at a time when I was still in shock myself. If someone wants to do it in a message, then I would never judge them.

I think you should be kinder to your MiL's sister. She is doing something very hard at a time when she herself is crushed with grief.

Extraordinarily insensitive response. Someone's sibling is almost always the person they will have the longest relationship in their life. Her sister's death, at which she was present, has an awful lot to do with her.

She isn't claiming any rights. She is simply reminding her nephew of the fact that, if they don't clear the room, the home will charge them. It's a perfectly reasonable and sensible thing to do.

That’s exactly the problem between my mum and my sister when Dad died. They had a big argument. Mum sorted out and packed Dad’s old clothes practically straight away. Whereas sister couldn’t even talk about this. The thing is that my Mum is a very practical person and can’t just sit quietly, she needs something to do. She also felt lost and lonely so tried to fill time with obvious practical things.
I agree about messenger - it does feel strange but she was probably upset to call and wanted this to be out of the way.

You’re allowed to process it however you want - I agree that Debbie was probably reacting differently to you and trying to be practical as a way to get through things. But we can also hurt other people who don’t think the same way as we do. Can the care home help with the clear out if it’s going to be a difficult process? I agree it’s a bit blunt to plunge in with “this will be expensive” but it’s also very logical and distraction is a coping technique taught to me by many psych wards so not to be dismissed! I’m very sorry indeed for your loss. x

When it became clear that my mother was dying, someone in her residential home warned me to be prepared that the contribution from Social Services could stop the following day, and could leave us with an extra bill at the end of the month, even though we already paid a substantial amount for her care. They also warned up that the home would want her room back asap, as they had a waiting list. The home had been so supportive to my mother in her last few days - they had moved her into a very quiet room, with doors opening onto the garden, so she could get the scent of the flowers, ( even though she was apparently out of it by then) and they made sure she was never left alone, and put her on a special mattress to make her more comfy. Her care was exemplary and I was very grateful to them. She passed away one night shortly after, very peacefully, and was moved to the undertakers before the residents woke up, for obvious reasons. We - my daughter, brother and I - went straight to the home that morning, and cleared her room, before going to see her at the undertakers. It didn’t take long to clear the room. Most of her stuff went into black carrier bags, and was easy to deal with. Frankly I never wanted to return there again.
It did seem a bit harsh at the time to act so quickly, but I’m glad we did it as we didn’t have that hanging over us, and actually it brought us all together.
I’d lost a lot of family in close order about then, and came to the conclusion that there isn’t an easy way to tell folks the news. Obviously your family member’s approach appears insensitive, but think this happens a lot at a time of grief, when it’s so wearing, 24/7 , and just overwhelming. I’m sorry for your loss, and wish you the best at this trying time.

Debbie sounds brilliant as she stayed with her sister until she passed and chose to inform everyone at the same time, so I don't understand why you've got the hump with her. 🤷🏻‍♀️