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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Angry and demanding a refund !

302 replies

LolaRosieBoo · 14/12/2023 11:00

I am a self-employed PT, very well known in my area, have been doing so for 10 years and as such I am expensive (£60 per session). A few years ago, I had to change my T&Cs so that sessions were paid for monthly in advance and sessions cancelled on the day would still be charged.

Before I implemented this policy, people would cancel their sessions with extremely short notice - on the day of - and sometimes only an hour beforehand. I’d also had people just not turn up! This was costing me both time and money, and this income supports my family.

Last month a new client started, she paid upfront and I sent the T&Cs. She cancelled her session yesterday (6 hours before it was due to start), saying her child was sick so she couldn’t make it. I wished her child to feel better and said I would see her next week. This morning, I’ve had a message saying ‘please deduct yesterdays session from next months invoice’. I replied saying that as per the T&Cs, I cannot give her a refund as she cancelled with less than a days notice, making it very difficult for me to recoup that money by finding someone else to fill her space.

She has now sent me a very angry text message demanding a refund or she will post about me on our local Facebook community board. She has accused me of being unethical, as people (especially those with children) will sometimes need to cancel at short notice and she cannot afford to spend £60 for nothing. I replied that this is my income and how I support my family, and I equally cannot afford to not be paid when it’s very short notice with no possibility of me finding someone else.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Seashor · 14/12/2023 14:10

I use a personal trainer and I always pay if I miss a session for WHATEVER reason. Outrageous behaviour on her part. It’s your job not your hobby.

YouOKHun · 14/12/2023 14:14

@wellwellso if I have to cancel a client because of being sick myself I offer them an alternative time at their convenience with the cost being covered by payment for the original session, so they are not out of pocket even if I am (no sick pay for the self employed). I have never been ill enough to cancel anyone in five years luckily.

I think there has to be a degree of discretion and I’m sure OP would respond to individual circumstances such as sudden bereavement. But in order to consider something like sudden bereavement or accident and also make a living there are times when a policy needs to be enforced, especially when it’s made clear up front.

If you are a lawyer then you should be better acquainted with what constitutes a lack of ethics.

Goodlard · 14/12/2023 14:14

wellwellso · 14/12/2023 13:58

i would say charge 45/50 for missed appt. 30 is too low for her as too many 30 will result in a loss.

if you yourself can cancel- as you just admitted- you are being hypocritical for not allowing any cancellations in all conditions. you would really charge someone whose husband/wife died suddenly?

those pts who allow rescheduling within same week when YOU are free (which will be rare) have fairer conditions, plus their 48 hours notice to cancel.

refund all her money including the missed one, and cancel the agreement as you have others on the waiting list.

do make your t&cs clear and repeat them in person before people sign up. let them sign up confirming their understanding and agreement, before you take money.

the only thing i would say i agree with, is that, their child sick- they could ask husband to stay at home- or why are you chosen as the one to cancel on?
if childminder cancels on mother, logically, mum must find/pay for an alternative as opposed to you being the automatic loser. etc etc

however, since you also can cancel, that's where you sound unethical.

i am a lawyer.

Don't do any of this, yes you're entitled to the a view and maybe a recent bereavement is sufficient for you to allow cancellation. But my child is unwell, is not sufficient!

You've no need to give any goodwill gesture and certainly not as she's tried to blackmail you.

If she posts on FB, relay the complete exchange and advise that in the interests of TCF (treating customers fairly), it would be unfair on others if she got a refund. Include a copy of your t&cs.

Cheeky mare!

Ploctopus · 14/12/2023 14:15

YANBU. She agreed to your terms. If she needed someone who could accommodate last minute cancellations she should have picked a different person.

OVienna · 14/12/2023 14:19

narkyspirit · 14/12/2023 12:56

I have a PT and due to being self employed occasionally I need to cancel, I expect to be charged if I cancel within 24 hours.

My work is providing training to HNW clients who are the worst for cancelling and expecting not to pay, most recent was the one where I had travelled to site client arrived 1 hour late then was having dramas and said they needed to go home. How much did they owe? full day fee was the response, oh well why don't I pay you for the time you have been here? No its a full day and then argued with me, I walked with no money and blocked them.

That is absolutely awful but no surprise to me whatsoever.

MirrorBack · 14/12/2023 14:20

I have the same as a tutor. Illness/ special events/ family needs/ car trouble extra. Funny how some have done and others wouldn’t make half the classes if I was relaxed.
Refund the rest of her sessions if she’s new and drop her. This is long term hassle

girlfriend44 · 14/12/2023 14:22

Did you make this clear to her at the start?

I am seeing someone at the mo and they have notified me that appointments that are cancelled within 48 hours need to be paid for.

You kind of know what to expect then. Just invoice her.

Sera1989 · 14/12/2023 14:26

If she posts on FB just ignore it. Tradesmen etc. get posted about on my local FB page all the time and I couldn't tell you the name of a single person or company that someone has complained about. If you get into the conversation you will seem uncaring because her child was sick, but you were sticking to the policy in you T&Cs

Howeverrrr, if you allow yourself to cancel sometimes at short notice if you have to, but don't allow your clients to do the same that is a bit hypocritical. I feel like there should be a mutual understanding that sometimes things are unavoidable and the person isn't trying to take the piss

Londonrach1 · 14/12/2023 14:33

Keep the money for the cancelled session. Refund the rest of the money paid due future sessions. You don't want this client. I'd also prewarn others in your business. I run a similar business and get notified of people like the former client of yours. No one will touch them as they not trustworthy. If she posts anything negative you reply with facts and no emotion eg...my terms and conditions are 24 hours for cancellations hence why deposit paid. Word it better than that but factual without and personal information. Keep it business like.

hjytrjulykuyh · 14/12/2023 14:34

Lol she's nuts. Ignore her. Giving into her bullying behaviour won't get you anywhere you want to be. If she leaves a review you can calmly respond that if she was unhappy with the T&Cs she should have read them more thoroughly.

My piano teacher is the same. Anything less than 24hr you pay up. As it should be.

madaboutmad · 14/12/2023 14:37

Sera1989 · 14/12/2023 14:26

If she posts on FB just ignore it. Tradesmen etc. get posted about on my local FB page all the time and I couldn't tell you the name of a single person or company that someone has complained about. If you get into the conversation you will seem uncaring because her child was sick, but you were sticking to the policy in you T&Cs

Howeverrrr, if you allow yourself to cancel sometimes at short notice if you have to, but don't allow your clients to do the same that is a bit hypocritical. I feel like there should be a mutual understanding that sometimes things are unavoidable and the person isn't trying to take the piss

How is it hypocritical? OP refunds them in full. They can always go for a free run, she can’t claim from anywhere.

CantFindTheBeat · 14/12/2023 14:38

Viviennemary · 14/12/2023 11:40

I think your t&c's are a bit draconian. Why not just charge half the fee for a cancellation. I think £60 is very steep. But thats what you've said. I think her attitude is bad though. Not sure what I would do. Even if you refund she could still post stuff. Probably give her the refund but refuse any more sessions. Threats are spiteful.

I think 24 hours notice is very reasonable.

OP is providing a pre-paid, booked service. She can't fill the slot at short notice as she'd lose out on income.

OP - as a pp suggested - probably not going to get on with this client, and as you're very credible and in demand, i'd personally refund her the missed day as a goodwill gesture, and cancel her.

Missamyp · 14/12/2023 14:42

Forget terms like self-employment and family income.
Consider yourself a business with clear terms and conditions. Only you have the power to modify or waive those terms at your discretion. If there is a problem with a client, like this one, who is resorting to blackmail it's best to terminate their contract and withdraw your services.
If the client posts about the issue on Facebook, stick to your company's policy and avoid getting drawn into a long and pointless argument. The client will look unhinged and entitled.

geckofrog · 14/12/2023 14:43

Sexlivesofthepotatomen · 14/12/2023 13:36

Or they can not sign up to something if they don't like the terms and conditions, why should OP be out of pocket?

Show quote history

I agree but that way she's less likely to get complaints as people will realise eg £50 of the cost is her time and the £10 is for the actual skill

jm9138 · 14/12/2023 14:44

The entire cost of the session to you is your time. You cannot get this back and it is unlikely that with such short notice you could have used that time to do something else that would generate income.

Further, financially she has not lost anything. She had allocated that money to you to buy your time and she just didn't use this time. It was not a physical good that she purchased. Say she had payed £60 for a bunch of flowers that when it was delivered, her child vomited all over straight away so she had to put it in the bin. Would she expect the florist to replace the flowers? Of course not.

I find people who pay for other people's time have a funny idea about what they consider fair in terms of cancellation. Just because you have children does not mean that someone else has to take on the burden of risk of being unable to complete a contractual obligation from you having those children unless that has been agreed beforehand.

I would do as the other poster has suggested and cancel the remainder of her classes and keep the £60.

Poufpastry · 14/12/2023 14:46

Sera1989 · 14/12/2023 14:26

If she posts on FB just ignore it. Tradesmen etc. get posted about on my local FB page all the time and I couldn't tell you the name of a single person or company that someone has complained about. If you get into the conversation you will seem uncaring because her child was sick, but you were sticking to the policy in you T&Cs

Howeverrrr, if you allow yourself to cancel sometimes at short notice if you have to, but don't allow your clients to do the same that is a bit hypocritical. I feel like there should be a mutual understanding that sometimes things are unavoidable and the person isn't trying to take the piss

Op immediately gives a full refund, she's not hypocritical in the slightest. Her conditions are reasonable and normal for her sort of business.

Goodlard · 14/12/2023 14:47

If people post on my local Facebook with unsolicited reviews (bad ones) on local trades, I tear them off a strip.

I say, it's ok not to recommend these people when asked, but to do this is totally out of order, it's not acceptable and it's a vicious attempt to ruin someone's business. This is assuming they've not killed their mother. But a petty squabble over t&cs, nah, not interested.

I find once I've spoken out, many people agree and the post will disappear.

FB is not a forum to ruin people.

Rant over

ememem84 · 14/12/2023 14:48

I would be offering a refund. I’d maybe offer some other times in the week to her so she doesn’t lose out. But only if you’ve got space.

if she does post online then I’d absolutely post t&c’s which state your cancellation terms.

Mariposista · 14/12/2023 14:50

She has already budgeted that money so whether or not she uses the service! You wouldn’t get a refund on cinema tickets.
CF. She lost me at ‘especially those with children’ hahahahaha your choice to reproduce sweetie

Goodlard · 14/12/2023 14:51

Mariposista · 14/12/2023 14:50

She has already budgeted that money so whether or not she uses the service! You wouldn’t get a refund on cinema tickets.
CF. She lost me at ‘especially those with children’ hahahahaha your choice to reproduce sweetie

Exactly! Does your sick child, trump my elderly parent, needing sudden assistance....

FlameGrilledSquirrel · 14/12/2023 14:51

Long term customer who you know? Fine. Just make sure they know it's not the normal policy.

Brand new customer who's already cancelling and demanding refunds or else? Byeeeeee. If she'd have been polite about it, maybe, simply to keep a new customer happy. But I'd put good money on this client being an absolute pain in the arse going forward. And the kind who'd take on board absolutely no advice then blame you for the lack of results.

HarryOHayandBettyOBarley · 14/12/2023 14:52

Brendabigbaps · 14/12/2023 11:09

I’d keep her money for the cancelled session but refund her the future sessions and cancel her as a client, she’s going to be nothing but trouble.
If she posts on Facebook just give a factual response of cancellation policy.
if your that good people won’t care

This.

MzHz · 14/12/2023 14:59

She’s going to be trouble @LolaRosieBoo

id cancel the rest of her sessions and send her the money back for them.

she threatened you. Fuck that

Sa11yCinnamon · 14/12/2023 15:07

Youcannotbeseriousreally · 14/12/2023 11:02

‘Especially those with children’

She needs to fuck right off with that self entitled attitude!!

stand firm, even if she posts on Facebook - I think she’ll be the one who looks like an idiot - not you!!

( edited to add - imagine if you paid a gym membership and wanted a refund because life happened and you didn’t have time to go?!?! )

Edited

If I could recoup all unused gym memberships I'd never have to work again 😂

ManateeFair · 14/12/2023 15:16

I used to go to a personal trainer and I think you are absolutely right to charge the full session fee if people cancel at short notice. I think it's pretty normal and certainly very reasonable; you're running a business and you're losing money if people just cancel on a whim. And obviously you can't make exceptions every time someone says 'My child was sick' or 'Something came up at work' or whatever, because you've no idea whether that's actually true or whether they just didn't fancy exercise that day.

The trainer I went to charged me for a month's sessions up front, which I then booked through his online appointments system. With 24 hours' notice I could move my session to a different slot if he had one free that month, but if I just wanted to cancel at the last minute and not rearrange, I wouldn't have got (or expected) a refund.

To be honest, it was a very good incentive to actually turn up to the sessions and exercise. If I could have cancelled with no penalty I'm pretty sure I'd have been a lot more tempted to stay in bed.