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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Angry and demanding a refund !

302 replies

LolaRosieBoo · 14/12/2023 11:00

I am a self-employed PT, very well known in my area, have been doing so for 10 years and as such I am expensive (£60 per session). A few years ago, I had to change my T&Cs so that sessions were paid for monthly in advance and sessions cancelled on the day would still be charged.

Before I implemented this policy, people would cancel their sessions with extremely short notice - on the day of - and sometimes only an hour beforehand. I’d also had people just not turn up! This was costing me both time and money, and this income supports my family.

Last month a new client started, she paid upfront and I sent the T&Cs. She cancelled her session yesterday (6 hours before it was due to start), saying her child was sick so she couldn’t make it. I wished her child to feel better and said I would see her next week. This morning, I’ve had a message saying ‘please deduct yesterdays session from next months invoice’. I replied saying that as per the T&Cs, I cannot give her a refund as she cancelled with less than a days notice, making it very difficult for me to recoup that money by finding someone else to fill her space.

She has now sent me a very angry text message demanding a refund or she will post about me on our local Facebook community board. She has accused me of being unethical, as people (especially those with children) will sometimes need to cancel at short notice and she cannot afford to spend £60 for nothing. I replied that this is my income and how I support my family, and I equally cannot afford to not be paid when it’s very short notice with no possibility of me finding someone else.

AIBU?

OP posts:
brokenhairclips · 14/12/2023 11:28

I think that it is fine that you charged her, as per the T&C, however I would have a think about how to be slightly more flexible, if possible, with long term reliable clients, for occasional emergency cancellations.
This could mean something like charging a smaller percentage of payment or offering an alternative time if possible before billing, if the client had been with you for a certain amount of time.

TeaKitten · 14/12/2023 11:29

I don’t think either of you are 100% wrong, it’s clearly in your terms and conditions, but a lot of self employed and small businesses would allow a reschedule in rare circumstances like this. If she was just busy or did this regularly then fair enough. But the reason many people use small businesses is for the goodwill and customer service. Her threading to try and ruin you on social media is totally out of order though obviously.

NeedToChangeName · 14/12/2023 11:31

HaPPy8 · 14/12/2023 11:10

I think I would have given an option to reschedule or allowed one cancellation before charging as it is more likely to result in good will on both sides and client retention however you are obviously doing well without needing to do this abd technically you are correct. I think most similar businesses have a bit of leeway with this kind of thing in my experience.

Edited

Agree with this, as a general policy

But in this case, I think OP should stand firm. Don't let a client bully you

Original poster
LolaRosieBoo · 14/12/2023 11:31

The issue with giving ‘goodwill gestures’ is people start taking the proverbial. Before I implemented my T&Cs, clients would cancel on me all the time with very short notice, costing me £££.

I seldom cancel, and when I do, they are given a refund straight away or I deduct it from the next invoice. I’m not able to offer catch ups as I am fully booked with a waiting list, so it would mean doing PT at inconvenient times (such as the weekends, when I spend time with my children). I have offered catch ups before, but I ended up overwhelmed with people cancelling and wanting to reschedule.

OP posts:
Ducksinthebath · 14/12/2023 11:34

For a new client, stick to the Ts and Cs. If she were a long term client then I can see the force in being a bit more flexible since they may have been flexible with you in the past plus for long-terms you get the 'value' of a regular client as opposed to onboarding costs.

If this lady is being such a troublemaker at this early stage she's probably not worth the effort to keep as a troublesome long term client.

poetryandwine · 14/12/2023 11:34

Your Ts&Cs are very reasonable. I think you need to stick to them. Sadly I think this woman has now damaged your relationship to the point that continuing with her is not a good idea.

But as a future matter of goodwill, what do you think of @carolsandchristmas ’s suggestion of offering to reschedule cancellations when it is convenient for you to do so? You would need to be able to decling gracefully and easily if they start pressing you to reschedule when it is not.

Hellenika · 14/12/2023 11:34

The issue with giving ‘goodwill gestures’ is people start taking the proverbial.

Its only the bullies that demand special treatment so I agree with you.

margotrose · 14/12/2023 11:35

I'm self-employed too and have similar T&C's but personally I always give people one "freebie".

Yes, I lose out on that occasion but I find it generally pays off massively down the line and if it doesn't, well, I've only lost one session out of them.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 14/12/2023 11:35

I understand why traders have these rules, but would you pay your customer £60 if you cancelled on the day?

I suspect not. But why do you think your losses are more important than theirs? As a pp said, hairdressers do this all the time, and people might have arranged childcare etc.

I wouldn't charge someone as long as they let me know and I had time to fill the space or just do something else with the time. I would charge if they didn't bother to let me know, though or only texted me 10 minutes before.

User576326783789 · 14/12/2023 11:35

Stick to your guns. I knew a self employed PT who had many issues as a result of not charging in advance/enforcing cancellation fees. Many incidences of clients booking 6am sessions only for him to arrive at the studio and they’d just no show after he’d got up at the crack of dawn and wasted petrol getting there leaving him further out of pocket.

I had a lash appointment last week which I’d pre-paid then unexpectedly had a huge upset the night before meaning my eyes were swollen and I was still upset morning of so I had to cancel on the day. She re-arranged on the understanding id have to pay a £20 late cancellation fee as id given less than 24 hours notice which I was more than happy with given it was my issue, not hers. Pretty standard when cancellation terms are broken so YANBU

NeedToChangeName · 14/12/2023 11:35

LolaRosieBoo · 14/12/2023 11:31

The issue with giving ‘goodwill gestures’ is people start taking the proverbial. Before I implemented my T&Cs, clients would cancel on me all the time with very short notice, costing me £££.

I seldom cancel, and when I do, they are given a refund straight away or I deduct it from the next invoice. I’m not able to offer catch ups as I am fully booked with a waiting list, so it would mean doing PT at inconvenient times (such as the weekends, when I spend time with my children). I have offered catch ups before, but I ended up overwhelmed with people cancelling and wanting to reschedule.

@LolaRosieBoo I think most people are suggesting one cancellation permitted without charge, not repeated occasions

For a first offender, I think it would be OK to say "it's a one off, no problem, but please note that in future, I reserve the right to charge per clause 6 of my terms & conditions (attached)"

margotrose · 14/12/2023 11:35

The issue with giving ‘goodwill gestures’ is people start taking the proverbial

Only if you allow them to.

Hellenika · 14/12/2023 11:36

offering to reschedule cancellations when it is convenient for you to do so?

I wouldn’t, as this would be a deviation from the T&Cs and set precedent that can be legally exploited against OP if anything goes to a formal dispute.

Wyksi · 14/12/2023 11:36

Keep the money for the session they missed and refund everything else saying you can no longer work with them

Don’t be bullied

margotrose · 14/12/2023 11:37

I understand why traders have these rules, but would you pay your customer £60 if you cancelled on the day?

If I have to cancel last minute I always refund or offer to put the money towards a future job.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 14/12/2023 11:38

I seldom cancel, and when I do, they are given a refund straight away or I deduct it from the next invoice

you say that as if you are doing a favour to people. If you cancel, clearly you can't charge for the slot.

My point is that you expect to be paid if a customer cancels because you want your profit. But why do you think that a customer should not be compensated for you letting them down?

But if you are fully booked with a waiting list, I guess you can do what you like.

People clearly have a lot of money to pay on PTs though, I was paying £30 (if I booked 10 sessions at a time) 2 years ago! £60 is quite a lot.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 14/12/2023 11:39

margotrose · 14/12/2023 11:37

I understand why traders have these rules, but would you pay your customer £60 if you cancelled on the day?

If I have to cancel last minute I always refund or offer to put the money towards a future job.

Not my point.

I mean compensation, not a refund for the missed slot - ie on top of the money refunded.

For example if you've arranged child care that is a wasted cost, or if you have bought an advance train ticket.

dastidlydaschel · 14/12/2023 11:39

You are right not to refund so long as she was aware of the T&C before she paid. In your OP you say she paid and you sent her the T&C. If you sent her the T&C after she paid she wouldn't have had opportunity to read the condition. In which case you need to suck it up and refund.

Fannyfiggs · 14/12/2023 11:40

Youcannotbeseriousreally · 14/12/2023 11:02

‘Especially those with children’

She needs to fuck right off with that self entitled attitude!!

stand firm, even if she posts on Facebook - I think she’ll be the one who looks like an idiot - not you!!

( edited to add - imagine if you paid a gym membership and wanted a refund because life happened and you didn’t have time to go?!?! )

Edited

imagine if you paid a gym membership and wanted a refund because life happened and you didn’t have time to go?!?!

100% this ☝️

TeaKitten · 14/12/2023 11:40

LolaRosieBoo · 14/12/2023 11:31

The issue with giving ‘goodwill gestures’ is people start taking the proverbial. Before I implemented my T&Cs, clients would cancel on me all the time with very short notice, costing me £££.

I seldom cancel, and when I do, they are given a refund straight away or I deduct it from the next invoice. I’m not able to offer catch ups as I am fully booked with a waiting list, so it would mean doing PT at inconvenient times (such as the weekends, when I spend time with my children). I have offered catch ups before, but I ended up overwhelmed with people cancelling and wanting to reschedule.

People only take advantage if you let them, one occasional freebee for sickness won’t. In this case I’d probably refund her and cancel her seen as you can probably fill her place anyway. The relationship is soured anyway now.

MaggieFS · 14/12/2023 11:40

Of course YANBU, she's the reason you have these Ts and Cs.

Screen shot her threats and tell her to crack on, and that you'll be delighted to share the messages in response to anything she chooses to post publicly.

I agree with pp that a bit of give and take would be kind if possible, but this is a new client. She's come straight out cheekily asking for it to be deducted from next month's invoice and then gone all guns blazing with threats. She COULD have chosen to say "I'm so sorry I know it's not proper, but could we re book please" but she didn't. And for all OP knows, she might do this once a month!

Viviennemary · 14/12/2023 11:40

I think your t&c's are a bit draconian. Why not just charge half the fee for a cancellation. I think £60 is very steep. But thats what you've said. I think her attitude is bad though. Not sure what I would do. Even if you refund she could still post stuff. Probably give her the refund but refuse any more sessions. Threats are spiteful.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 14/12/2023 11:40

imagine if you paid a gym membership and wanted a refund because life happened and you didn’t have time to go

different though because you can go at any time, it's not a specific slot

AnonnyMouseDave · 14/12/2023 11:40

"Why did you lie to me? You told me you accepted the Ts and Cs and now you;re saying you don't?"

I would wait until the next appointment and tell her that you forgot to tell her that you have cancelled and she can have a refund for the rest of the month, but not for the day's cancellation, then block her

Sturnidae · 14/12/2023 11:40

Tell her to go ahead, you have a waiting list for a reason!