Angry and demanding a refund !

[LolaRosieBoo]

I am a self-employed PT, very well known in my area, have been doing so for 10 years and as such I am expensive (£60 per session). A few years ago, I had to change my T&Cs so that sessions were paid for monthly in advance and sessions cancelled on the day would still be charged.

Before I implemented this policy, people would cancel their sessions with extremely short notice - on the day of - and sometimes only an hour beforehand. I’d also had people just not turn up! This was costing me both time and money, and this income supports my family.

Last month a new client started, she paid upfront and I sent the T&Cs. She cancelled her session yesterday (6 hours before it was due to start), saying her child was sick so she couldn’t make it. I wished her child to feel better and said I would see her next week. This morning, I’ve had a message saying ‘please deduct yesterdays session from next months invoice’. I replied saying that as per the T&Cs, I cannot give her a refund as she cancelled with less than a days notice, making it very difficult for me to recoup that money by finding someone else to fill her space.

She has now sent me a very angry text message demanding a refund or she will post about me on our local Facebook community board. She has accused me of being unethical, as people (especially those with children) will sometimes need to cancel at short notice and she cannot afford to spend £60 for nothing. I replied that this is my income and how I support my family, and I equally cannot afford to not be paid when it’s very short notice with no possibility of me finding someone else.

AIBU?

SE sports coach here - the problem you now have is that you have ill-will and I wouldn't want to be training someone feeling like that. If it was me, I think I'd refund her any outstanding sessions, but not the cancelled one.

When we were allowed to coach but under covid restrictions, I had a similar thing (the kid didn't turn up as the mum forgot). She said the payment could go forward for the following week and I said "no, we agreed that if you've booked and paid and you don't give me 48 hours notice then you lose that session" she went absolutely beserk, calling me all the names under the sun (I'd never even met the woman another dad used to bring her son and his son). I spoke to the other dad about it who then had a right go at the mother (as he was mortified) and the kid was never brought back..... the session was £6

Unethical- oh dear that is libel.

She needs to be told to remove
words like that or you will take legal action. She can give an opinion that it is unfair, not showing goodwill etc but she needs to watch what she writes, this is your income. If you think that you could suffer a financial loss due to reputation damage, you can tell her that forthwith.

I'm a childminder and have a similar policy - payment in advance and I don't refund for sick children, holidays, school closed, car wouldn't start or any other cancellation.

I don't give freebies and everyone knows and agrees to the T&Cs before they sign up.

Since she's threatened you, I'd keep the money for this session, refund anything else she has paid and get rid of her.

It's pretty standard I think. My PT allows a free reschedule the same week IF I can do a slot when she's free (not many as she's busy) but I certainly wouldn't expect her to not charge.
However, my PT did also lose a couple of clients this way and was very upset about it. She has easily replaced them though and as somebody previously said, it's not easy to train somebody there's ill feeling with.

YANBU. If she does post on FB then post your TC and point out that it’s in the contract/agreement/booking process.

For this new client depending on how many sessions she’s paid for, as she’s been rude and angry I wouldn’t refund and wouldn’t see her again. I might see her if she paid for the session and apologised but as PP’s say you don’t want to get into an argument with her.

I do appreciate small businesses are between a rock and a hard place re running a business and being understanding.

If you have a wait list, I'd be inclined to give her a full refund for all unused sessions (with or without including the missed one) terminate the contract and fill that space with someone who will work with you, rather than against you. Make it clear why. "I work on the basis of mutual respect and cannot work with someone who makes threats of slander and libel" or whatever.

It sounds like you're in a position to be choosy with your clients.

I think you need to relook at your prices so that you are able to offer say £10 refunded if they cancel

She can squawk all she wants, she is wrong, and obligated to pay. (You did have a contact I assume.)I signed contracts when I had pt and that was a stipulation. My dentist and dermatologist same policy 24 hours noticed required. When I went to PT I did pay if cancelled within 24 hours. I just had to do it, because that's life! Not the therapists fault I cancelled those days.

Or they can not sign up to something if they don't like the terms and conditions, why should OP be out of pocket?

yes. Blimey, I’d have a very large sum if I was reimbursed the monthly fee of my unused gym membership…

Someone wrote a totally unjustified review about me recently and I was worried it was going to damage my reputation. I just wrote a really professional response, stating the facts, and it made her look like an idiot. It is still up, and no one has batted an eye lid over it due to how I responded which made her look U and backfired on her.

I’d get legal advice, isn’t this defamation?

I think your t&c's are a bit draconian. Why not just charge half the fee for a cancellation. I think £60 is very steep.

The £60 is the agreed price - and what OP regularly charges and is paid by her clients, so it must be fair and isn't 'very steep'. It would be to me personally, who flees from the very thought of PT and gyms; but that's why I haven't signed up with any and agreed to their T&Cs.

Would you be willing to accept only half of your agreed salary/wages for any session/day/week if a colleague who works alongside you were off sick? Surely expecting your full pay for that time is very steep...?!

Far too many people only see things from their own perspective, and treat other people as nothing more than pawns in their life. They aren't running their business as a bit of a hobby or purely to facilitate you and your whims. They aren't trying to rob you; they are protecting their income as agreed and budgeted for.

Stick to your guns. Why should HER child being sick cost YOU £60?

Yes, I completely agree with this. It's annoying/a shame/devastating when your child's sickness causes you to lose money or stops you from doing something; but how mad to expect a stranger (or any third party) to bear that loss for your own child's sickness, rather than you yourself!

Blimey, I’d have a very large sum if I was reimbursed the monthly fee of my unused gym membership…

I believe next month is the real biggie for gyms gaining new income streams, following all of the Christmas indulgences and New Year resolutions.

Everybody else calls it 'January', but their calendars list it as 'Kerching'!

I think your Ts and Cs are clear and reasonable. I agree that for a long-standing client it might be nice to try to reschedule if you can, but that would be a bonus not a right. For a new one, it makes sense to stand firm.

Yes it is a shame that because her child is sick she has to lose £60. The alternative is that because her child is sick, you lose £60. That would be even more unfair.

I also think that if she can afford to pay £60 for a PT training session she can not be that hard up. I'm not suggesting that your rates are too high, but you are obviously providing a luxury service, not an essential one.

Let her do what she wants. Have some confidence in your reputation.

That's how my coach does it. It's the only way to do it as it's seen as an option to some people I think.

I would tell her to go ahead. She signed a legally-binding contract and she is accountable for that. If she slanders you or your business then assuming you have insurance, you can sue her and demand a retraction and compensation for any (provable) loss of income. (I used to be a music teacher and had the same conditions.)

Your policy is the same as most business policies these days. If I cancelled my hair appointment a day before I would have to pay the full amount. 48 hours would be 50%. We recently had to cancel a meal due to covid and we didn’t get our deposit back. I don’t think it’s unethical at all.

YANBU If she can’t afford to lose money because of random child issues she should never have signed up in the first place. There are plenty of gyms that have a pay as you go system (my own local one does). She should have used those type of facilities instead.

If anything, more businesses are taking non-refundable deposits these days. Sack her.

i would say charge 45/50 for missed appt. 30 is too low for her as too many 30 will result in a loss.

if you yourself can cancel- as you just admitted- you are being hypocritical for not allowing any cancellations in all conditions. you would really charge someone whose husband/wife died suddenly?

those pts who allow rescheduling within same week when YOU are free (which will be rare) have fairer conditions, plus their 48 hours notice to cancel.

refund all her money including the missed one, and cancel the agreement as you have others on the waiting list.

do make your t&cs clear and repeat them in person before people sign up. let them sign up confirming their understanding and agreement, before you take money.

the only thing i would say i agree with, is that, their child sick- they could ask husband to stay at home- or why are you chosen as the one to cancel on?
if childminder cancels on mother, logically, mum must find/pay for an alternative as opposed to you being the automatic loser. etc etc

however, since you also can cancel, that's where you sound unethical.

i am a lawyer.

I'm in a similar kind of industry, self-employed full-time single parent (so no other income in the household to fall back on). I also have a 24 hour cancellation policy. However, the first two sessions are always charged as stand-alone sessions so we can see how well we are going to work together and I always make my terms and conditions clear prior to starting invoicing monthly in advance (plus all invoices state that payment of the invoice denotes agreement with the standard T&C, with a link).

In reality I do tend to offer a little flexibility, for example if they've cancelled in the morning due to child illness for an evening session (I don't want them coming to me ill just so they don't lose the money, as this would cost me much more if I become ill). However, when I am flexible I do remind them that I'm doing it as a gesture of goodwill and can not do this for future occurrences.

To be fair, even when I've offered to be flexible, the vast majority still offer to pay as they appreciate it's their "fault".

Offering a little flexibility can also help build good relationships on the rare occasions when you need to cancel at short notice too.

However, I think having a few sessions with new clients on a PAYG basis before committing to taking them on on a pay monthly basis does tend to weed out the ones who will be difficult later.

Totally reasonable. One of my kids can't attend school, and from day one I told tutors that we operated a 48 hour rule, to reflect the value of their time. They never needed to say it to us. We recognised our responsibility to them.

It doesn't sound like this woman would be a good client anyway, and I suspect that if she did post this on any Facebook page most people would think she was being totally unreasonable. She is expecting you to pay for her child's illness.

I'd refund her remaining payments in full at this point and say that you don't feel you are a good fit for her, and wish her the best.

Let her crack on

then you respond with your t&cs and that it’s your family income

tbh I would now consider refusing her as a client and get the word out to other local trainers