To be completely broken by DS behaviour?

[MachuPikachu]

I have DS5, DD3 and DS2. Final was a failed coil before anyone starts questioning that decision.

DS5 is extremely challenging and I’m really struggling to cope with it. At school he is well behaved and they have no concerns. At home he lacks all independence and will push back heavily on doing anything himself. He has to dress himself and I will not help with this as it’s an important skill, but he will ask repeatedly for assistance despite always getting the same answer. His younger sister dresses herself easily and with no fuss. He won’t even put a banana skin in the bin without it being a big argument.

DS5 just seems unable to play nicely with his siblings. Yesterday he kicked down a tower than DS2 had made within seconds of going into the same room. When he was told if he couldn’t play nicely with them he couldn’t play with them and removed to his room for a timeout he did exactly the same thing when allowed back down. It’s very rare that I can leave a room that they are all in because he will hurt someone or do something to upset them.

It all came to a head last night when a friend popped round and DS5 decided he wanted to ‘cuddle’ the younger ones whilst they were having their milk. He just wanted to annoy them and it did annoy and upset them and he just would not stop doing it until removed from the room. Friend stayed with him downstairs whilst I put the younger two to bed. I then took DS5 up for his stories and he decided to scream repeatedly in an attempt to wake the younger two.

I was so so embarrassed in front of my friend, her children are really well behaved and I don’t know what I’m doing wrong or how to manage this behaviour. DS5 went for a sleepover at grandmas recently and DD3 and DS2 just played so nicely together and it seemed so easy, within 5 mins of him arriving home the next day someone was crying.

I feel completely broken by his behaviour and just have no idea how to address it anymore.

AIBU to be broken by this or is this just parenting? Any advice truely welcome

Sorry you are struggling op; you are not the only parent going through it with four and five year olds, an age where they discover their own strength and test boundaries,

This is classic attention seeking behaviour isn’t it? Poor behaviour is always a message. Your attention is bound to be more on his siblings, simply because of their age. And of course he won’t get dressed on his own because it means he has less of your attention if he does things independently. You have to instigate a reward system or at least ensure he receives lots of praise when he does something on his own.

In his eyes he’s had two siblings come in quick
succession to steal his thunder. He misses having all of your attention.

The key to this is having more one on one time with him without the other two. It’s so difficult when you are in the parenting trenches but try and find time every day.

And massively big up the praise when he gets things right.

Don’t let things deteriorate in to a negative cycle.
Ignore the bad and praise the good.

Instead of him getting attention for being naughty - try and turn it around so it’s you and him looking after the younger ones. He is your side kick. Your “special” helper. Emphasise all the things that he can do and they can’t.

He probably finds playing with his siblings frustrating, so change it to “looking after them” or “teaching them” instead.

Get him on board as “Mummy’s helper - oh aren’t the babies silly - I am sure you can show them how to behave”. Or “you are such a good big brother, you help Mummy so much and teach the babies so well” “Only you are old enough to drink milk properly with a glass, why not sit down and show the babies how to do it?”

I know it’s easy to say and not at all easy to do, but get your partner on board too and instead of always saying “don’t do that” change it around and say “can you show the babies how big boys do it?”

Good luck 💐. The fact that he behaves at school means you have taught him well. This negative behaviour is emerging at home because it’s where he knows he is safe and loved and can make his needs known.

Is he trying to get attention? He may feel like the younger ones get a lot of your focus and so plays up so that he gets attention too. Maybe everyone has high expectations of him as the oldest one but he just wants to be babied and looked after! Although really annoying and embarrassing, it's probably normal.

Could you try ignoring the bad behaviour as much as possible and rewarding good behaviour? Maybe reward chart and collect stickers for being helpful etc, then once he has collected enough stickers he gets a prize?

Make sure he knows where the boundaries are and stick to them consistently. If he does naughty stuff just calmly state what is going to happen (I'm taking away x toy, you can have it back when you behave etc). Easier said than done I know!

Read books about how great it is to be the biggest brother and all the things he can do that the little ones can't. Boost his self esteem!

I'd also try to spend some one on one time with him when you don't have the others. Difficult but even 30 minutes playing a game can make a difference to how he feels. Granny time and daddy time is important too.

And if you have a partner get him to take your ds out alone on “special outings that only big boys can go on, because the babies are too young”

And when they come back get your dp to recount to you all of the times your ds behaved well in his hearing “do you know catsnore ds ate a sandwich by himself and washed his hands on his own it was amazing and he listened so well when we were crossing the road, he is really growing up” etc.

What @ThisisgroundcontroltoMajorTom said. This looks like jealousy and attention seeking.

@ThisisgroundcontroltoMajorTom I agree completely, I was about to write much the same thing.
It's classic attention seeking. Children will do anything to fill their 'attention bucket' even if the attention is negative.
Asking for help getting dressed is a big one. Children will ask for help with doing things they can do themselves, because they just want to feel cared for in that moment.
I'd make an extra effort to be positive towards your DS. It might take a while for his behaviour to change but stick with it. Lots of love, praise and attention is what's needed. Not time outs etc, as that's just going to keep him and you in this behaviour cycle.
Don't feel broken, you aren't the first parent to get into this situation, far from it! It's hard when you've got younger ones who need more attention, but you need to reset your thinking to them all getting equal attention and making extra effort to make sure your eldests is mostly positive. Start today. When you pick him up from school, by being extra happy to see him and tell him that. Really go OTT on the positivity and attention, I bet it changes your evening for the better.

We found that engineering situations where a parent could have 1:1 time with a child was very helpful.

It does sound massively annoying, but not uncommon for a very young child with two younger, needier siblings. If he was the same age but the youngest of three he probably wouldn't be acting up in the same way.

You've had some good advice from Fionaville and I would probably give that a try.

Lots of good ideas here and 1:1 definitely important but please don't start referring to your younger two as babies, especially silly babies, and just lumping together! They are well able to understand at 2 and 3 and you're just going to create more problems.

Also pick your battles. Taking hours to get dressed when it's stressful for everyone just so you can say he did it on his own? Or say 'you do pants and trousers, I'll do socks ' etc? Meet him part way. And natural consequences. 'I've helped with your jumper, if you can get your trousers on in the next two minutes then we'll have time to play downstairs for five minutes, if not we'll have to go straight to school.'

His behaviour is not uncommon for his age and he's had to go from being an only child to two siblings in a very quick space of time. I think your expectations are possibly too high. Lots of 5 years still require support and prompting with dressing.

Yes attention seeking, I assume DS2 has help so he wants it. His life changed from being the only one to have two siblings in quick succession and he doesn’t like it
how was he at grandmas for the sleepover?

i think you maybe in a vicious circle, your expectations of him, he doesn’t want or meet them, he plays up you don’t like it you see his siblings as being easier, he tells thisplays up etc

Honestly sounds like my house - I have DS 6 and DD 2. They don't get on at all at the moment and now my DD starts to do what DS does to her back, its not a fun place! But I know it will come back around to them being on the same pace as DD gets a little older.

DS is a nightmare at home and well behaved at school. His reception teacher last year pointed out that a child can not behaving 24/7. Its impossible for them. So if they are refrained and well behaved at school, the challenging behaviour challenging

You can also always tell if we are nearer in the end of half term or term in our house as DS behaviour is worse. Its like he gets to a point and can't do anymore with school. School is massively tiring for them esp in the first few years.

It definitely sounds like jealousy. It’s normal. Think of it from his perspective. Like, imagine your husband brought another woman home and announced she was going to be living with you, he didn’t love you any less, but the woman needed a lot of attention because she was new. On top of that you were expected to be nice to her. How would that make you feel? Because that is how it feels to a child with a younger sibling. He just needs one on one attention.

Totally agree with everyone else- it's classic attention seeking. In his little head he is competing with two younger siblings -the showing off and being irritating get him noticed, his refusal to dress gets your time and attention.
It WILL get better. You are certainly not the only one in this position so don't feel alone! It's difficult juggling 3 under 6.
What have you tried in terms of sticker/reward charts? Does he respond well to being the big brother who gets certain responsibilities/advantages?

I didn’t mean in their hearing … I meant in a conspiratorial humorous way to your ds .. to get him on side…and make him feel very important in that situation.

The term “babies” being a short cut that a 5 year old can easily understand that emphasises the age difference for him

Perhaps funny would be better than silly admittedly but use a child friendly term that gives him the message that he is older and more adept at things. So he gets praise for doing them independently.

If my five year old wants me to help her dress, I help her. She wants to connect with me. The more connection you are able to focus on with him, the less negative behaviour you will see. It's hard being the older brother to two siblings who are at very needy ages. Great to see such supportive and appropriate suggestions above, the key is to improve your connection so he feels less jealous of siblings and less needing to act out

He has to dress himself and I will not help with this as it’s an important skill, but he will ask repeatedly for assistance despite always getting the same answer.

Is he actually struggling - it's not uncommon to see eldest child as older as they are - or is he wanting some positive reinforcement - as PP said could you not get him to do part of it - and help with rest or make it a fun race just to stop it becoming a point of contention.

Also is he picking fight and annoying younger siblings deliberately or does he want to interact with them and needs support to do so - ie is it your perception of his behavior.

Fetch and carry putting stuff in bin- is it your phrasing - https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen-ebook/dp/B00APJOY3A would this help as I've found sometime it's how you ask that gets response you want.

Also at this age DS was difficult be also need lost of outside running about - more so than my DDs especially after school.

I’d recommend this book or her general parenting book. I think having a sibling at the age of 2 might be part of this.

https://www.wob.com/en-gb/books/dr-laura-markham/calm-parents-happy-siblings/9781785040252?cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=18082217234&cq_con=&cq_med=pla&cq_plac=&cq_net=x&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADZzAID9TpC3CDfub05n3zJg-yBIC&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1PyV-PmOgwMV0EdBAh3Q7wZKEAQYASABEgKBb_D_BwE#GOR006668940

https://www.ahaparenting.com/read/child-with-new-sibling

I have similar age gaps - DD1 was eldest and literally just 4 when started school - for years it exhausted her and she wasn't her best at home - and actually need earlier bed time as well.

Classic attention seeking. Maybe he feels he's being pushed to grow up too quickly and so digs his heels in and refuses to do things like getting dressed himself.

with my eldest we introduced Mummy time
This meant dh had to sort out the youngest 2 while I sorted ds.

Each evening he had 20 minutes with me which was story time. He loved snuggling up and having that time.
Then Friday night he and I watched something together and stayed up 30 minutes later.
We deliberately called them all Mummy time, and told him that this was his time with mummy because little ones needed time to get dressed etc.

At the same time we found a few things to make him feel more grown up, things he could do/have now that the younger ones were too small for. I can't now remember what they were.

I just want to add - is this his first year at school? I think home behaviour can go down the pan in the first year at school, it is so hard for them and they kick out at home and they just need to be allowed to be 'younger' at home for a while. A bit of a revert to babyhood. It makes them feel safe.

Also agree with people saying it could be do with him starting Reception. We had the worst behaviour at home during the first few months of starting school, it did gradually improve and all fine by year 1.

He has to dress himself and I will not help with this as it’s an important skill, but he will ask repeatedly for assistance despite always getting the same answer.

He is 5! this 'life skill' isn't something that he needs right now, he needs some love and positive attention from his parents, and if that means some help with his socks while he's getting upset then just do it.

DS1 is 7 and I still help him if he asks for it!

The first poster has it.

Alongside of this he has to be independent and well behaved at school which is a strain at 5.

I think it’s easy to treat your eldest child as older than they really are when you have younger siblings. A friend of mine was telling me how awfully badly her child was when opening his Christmas presents when actually he was just being a little boy who was over-excited. Because there were younger children in the family she expected more of him than he could give.

Try helping him get dressed and ‘babying’ him a little. He probably needs it.