To be completely broken by DS behaviour?

[MachuPikachu]

I have DS5, DD3 and DS2. Final was a failed coil before anyone starts questioning that decision.

DS5 is extremely challenging and I’m really struggling to cope with it. At school he is well behaved and they have no concerns. At home he lacks all independence and will push back heavily on doing anything himself. He has to dress himself and I will not help with this as it’s an important skill, but he will ask repeatedly for assistance despite always getting the same answer. His younger sister dresses herself easily and with no fuss. He won’t even put a banana skin in the bin without it being a big argument.

DS5 just seems unable to play nicely with his siblings. Yesterday he kicked down a tower than DS2 had made within seconds of going into the same room. When he was told if he couldn’t play nicely with them he couldn’t play with them and removed to his room for a timeout he did exactly the same thing when allowed back down. It’s very rare that I can leave a room that they are all in because he will hurt someone or do something to upset them.

It all came to a head last night when a friend popped round and DS5 decided he wanted to ‘cuddle’ the younger ones whilst they were having their milk. He just wanted to annoy them and it did annoy and upset them and he just would not stop doing it until removed from the room. Friend stayed with him downstairs whilst I put the younger two to bed. I then took DS5 up for his stories and he decided to scream repeatedly in an attempt to wake the younger two.

I was so so embarrassed in front of my friend, her children are really well behaved and I don’t know what I’m doing wrong or how to manage this behaviour. DS5 went for a sleepover at grandmas recently and DD3 and DS2 just played so nicely together and it seemed so easy, within 5 mins of him arriving home the next day someone was crying.

I feel completely broken by his behaviour and just have no idea how to address it anymore.

AIBU to be broken by this or is this just parenting? Any advice truely welcome

Loads of lovely advice already so I'll just respond to your update. It sounds like he gets loads of special time with a parent, that's great. The Siblings without Rivalry and Peaceful Parent Happy Siblings books are both ace and really worth a read.

Does he get himself changed ok for PE now? I see this was an issue last year but maybe it isn't any more? Getting my middle child to dress himself was a real struggle the summer before he started school and I was desperate to nail it so that he could get changed quickly for PE when needed. We started with one item at a time and he got to choose it. I think it was pants or t-shirt first, I can't remember... but anyway we added an extra item every few days or a week, always his choice, and I did the remaining items with loads of cuddles and praise for what he'd done. Might be a strategy to try? He's 7 now and I STILL get him dressed some mornings because he is just not a morning person and it's a good opportunity for some cuddles, but he's never had any issues with getting himself changed at school.

Good luck OP, you've parented him well because a) he knows how to behave at school and Grandma's and b) he feels safe enough with you to let loose. So please don't go hard on yourself.

I would say help him with getting dressed partially. Put the jumper over his head and say ‘now you put your arms through.’ Sometimes my 7 year old likes it if I lay it all out and I sit with him while he gets changed. He can do his buttons but when I do it I can see he feels a bit special/loved. I don’t have to do it everyday but even just doing a few.

As adults we are constantly told to pamper ourselves and to think of self care. To take shortcuts. To be kind to ourselves. And yet we want tiny tiny children to hurtle themselves towards independence. I bet lots of Y1 and even Y2 kids need help with dressing.

Your son was very well behaved for your friend. Did you praise him for it? ‘I had to leave you with X and you were so good. I was very proud.’ Targeted and specific praise is very good at this age.

He doesn’t care for reward charts because he just wants to be babied a little bit. That’s the ‘reward’ he wants and when your youngest is 5 you’ll sort of realise how little 5 is really. I would alternate between ‘you are a big boy and so you get this special time and special responsibility aka laying the table’ and ‘you are still my little boy and let me help you with X.’

No it wouldn’t be accepted by them. I don’t accept it either, I remove him from the situation when things like this happen as I’ve explained. What is it you think I’m doing wrong? Genuinely interested to hear and any tips you have.

Sorry that was to @Kittylala

He’s five and he’s showing you that he wants attention and being naughty is the way he’s getting it. Removing him from the room isn’t very nice for him and his behaviour will be towards his siblings because he doesn’t understand that they are good and do as mammy has asked all he sees is that they have came along and now get all the attention. I have had 3 under 5 and it is hard work but it’s about understanding why your child is doing this behaviour and what you can do to change it. It can be done because pushing him away is just going to make it worse

It’s great that he is already getting some alone time - and I know it’s hard to carve out more - but can you make a bigger deal of the time you have?

As in ‘I’m so happy I get to have this special time just you and me’
‘After breakfast we have DS and mummy time, what would you like to do?’
‘I love reading your stories and cuddling you. Thank you for sitting with me’

etc etc. Sometimes it’s easy to feel like they’ve had some one on one time but it’s maybe not felt to them as though they’ve had your full attention. Making a big deal about how much you enjoy it might make him feel that it’s really special.

You need a reward system and dedicated 1:1 time with him.

He is only 5!!!!! I think he is allowed a little help getting dressed.......

Even out of hearing it's just exacerbating the rivalry, and as another poster has said enforcing birth order stereotypes. You can praise him being grown up without denigrating the others! It's just more and more messaging that the other two are a nice pair and he's the odd one out.

It sounds like he's really struggling, particularly with needing help to do things. This is likely his way of trying to get his emotional needs met, and it is important. He's only 5, of course he will dress himself when he's older, but right now he doesn't need to be compared to other children and he needs reassurance. If a child is "acting out" the worst thing you can do for long-term social and emotional health is to instruct puppy training techniques of 'ignore the bad, reinforce the good'.

The most supportive choice is to identify his needs and his perspective, and help him to develop the emotional resources and skills to self-regulate and manage his behaviour. Secure children are interdependent before becoming independent. Healthy independence and emotional regulation never come from being ignored or punished (time out, which uses isolation instead of support and teaching appropriate behaviour) when the expectations of them outstrip their immature abilities (i.e. tantrums, aggression, sharing difficulties etc).

DS is 12 and I still help him. It's a form of love

Read the "5 love languages."

Acts of service are a form of love.

DS does everything else but it's a left-over from when he was little and I'm happy to help pass a jumper or find a sock.

What he's really saying is "I need your presence to feel strong, to feel capable in this world".

Yes he's five and he's challenging. ALL five year olds are.

You are expecting too much.

Just love him. That's all he needs.

If you're giving him a hard time because you're overwhelmed with the other two, you need to ask for more help from somewhere.

Anyone can get up 5 mins earlier to help dress their kid...

Sometimes I think it's easy to for parents to feel like they are meeting all of their children's needs based on how much they feel they do for them and how much they love them. But actually, maybe your sons needs are not being met in the way he needs them to be met.

Have you considered he maybe wants you to dress him or put his things in the bin because you would be doing an act of service for him - 'looking after him', or giving him a moment of undivided attention just for him? Maybe he can sense that you find him hard work compared to the younger ones so now gains his attention by acting in an annoying way towards them. Also, by sending him to his room when he's acting up, you are the withdrawing your relationship as a form of punishment which may be the very reason why he's acting up in the first place (May feels he need more).

He's still very young and is having to share attention with 2 younger siblings (no criticism, there will obviously be benefits too). He sounds more like he is lacking in something and acting up, than inherently naughty.

Im sure you're doing you're best but sometimes it's hard to see when you already feel you are very stretched.

Thanks all. I feel like compared to his friends he is already not very independent, he doesn’t cut his own food, brush his own teeth, wipe his bum, zip his coat etc. I thought it was good to encourage him to dress himself as it’s something he doesn’t struggle to do at all, he just doesn’t want to, but maybe I should just relent and do that too.

ill try giving more praise on a daily basis, he always gets praise for being good at birthday parties, play dates, at his sports clubs etc but I’ll try integrate it into home life more and see if it helps.

i understand him acting out when with his siblings, I don’t know why he still does things when we are already one on one and he has my full attention, like last night when we were reading stories and he started screaming to wake his siblings, anyone have any ideas why he would act out then?

Probably because he knows bedtime is imminent and he wants to prolong the time with you.

sometimes they do get into a negative attention spiral too and want to create a situation where that happens. I think it’s best to give bad behaviour zero attention (as far as possible) and just go overboard with the positive.

at 5, mine also weren’t brushing teeth/cutting food by themselves. They could physically but they usually didn’t. Wiping his own bum is one to encourage though 😄 he surely can do that as they wouldn’t be doing it for him at school would they? It’s really hard with your oldest especially when you have two smaller ones and only one pair of hands. Maybe just focus on doing one thing independently at a time and then the next.

Your expectations are too high. Making a 5 year old dress himself because 'it's an important life skill'. You are treating him older than he is. Many people with younger children do this, they stop realising that the older child needs babying too sometimes. Poor little mite, sorry but you sound strict and harsh.

They can all be little bastards in their own special way. No advice on what to do - I joke that I fail every day as a parent in a different way and in ways that I will not even know about until they are grown up and tell me. Lots of good advice here of what you can try.

My advice to you though is (as hard as it can be) to not dwell on his poor behaviour in your head for too long and focus on what is great about him. Just see his poor behaviour as part of your job as a parent to knock off the rough edges. But goodness it can take some effort to get there.

Oh yes sorry he does wipe his bum at school, just prefers not to at home and I’m a soft touch (even if some people here think I’m really cold!) same for the coat.

good point re bedtime being imminent and negative spiral

He's 5! And a boy! Just relax a bit blimey! When was the last time you cuddled just him and told him how brilliant he is and what a great brother he is?

5 is very young. I still helped my eldest when she was 7. She obviously knew how to dress herself and didn't need my help but it was a way of spending time with her. I have a new baby and I try and make sure me and dd1 have regular 1 to 1 time.

Agree with this. I only meant it as a temporary solution while he is reluctant to get dressed etc to get him over that difficulty. Once he feels more at ease with it all you can drop the strategy.

This is really sad - you are getting lots of great advice OP but coming back and saying you are either doing this stuff or it didn't work. Your DS is a tiny 5 year old - he is asking for attention. Whatever attention you are giving him is not the attention he is asking for. As the adult you need to work out what he wants. As PPs have said you describe yourself as broken by his behaviour - he's trying to tell you he is broken by yours. He hasn't got the luxury of an internet forum to explain his feelings though. Read The Book You Wish Your Parents had Read by Phillipa Perry - she explains all this beautifully and provides some useful practical advice.

Also, I have 3 kids.
I have 2 brothers so I am one of 3 as well.

My mum and I both say, take any one child out of the mix and the other two are great! It is something about the dynamic. Not always, and I love having 3, but it is noticeable that whichever 2 are left works better.

You’re not cold at all, if you weren’t a great mum you wouldn’t be worried about this. It is so hard having three small children. This is the toughest bit in terms of what they physically need from you and it can be exhausting.

it sounds like he is totally capable but probably wanting to revert to being ‘babied’ as he sees you doing that for the younger ones. I’d try to just wait it out with a lot of positive reinforcement for anything he does independently and praise him for being a big boy wherever possible. But remember he is still only small really and wants you. I was definitely guilty of expecting too much from my eldest, it’s normal, and great that you’ve recognised there is something that you can do to change things for the better. Go easy on yourself, it is bloody hard.

Oh and I heard a really good line in a play a few months ago (I guess it is lifted from somewhere else though)

"Having one child is like having a pet, having two is like owning a zoo, having three is like living in the jungle"

@FastBlueHedgehog that feels overly harsh, I’m grateful for all suggestions and I said I will try more daily praise and just to do the dressing myself again.

I will try the book thank you for the recommendation