Page 2 | To be completely broken by DS behaviour?

MachuPikachu · 2023-12-14T10:44:45+00:00

I have DS5, DD3 and DS2. Final was a failed coil before anyone starts questioning that decision. DS5 is extremely challenging and I’m really struggling to cope with it. At school he is well behaved and they have no concerns. At home he lacks all independence and will push back heavily on doing anything himself. He has to dress himself and I will not help with this as it’s an important skill, but he will ask repeatedly for assistance despite always getting the same answer. His younger sister dresses herself easily and with no fuss. He won’t even put a banana skin in the bin without it being a big argument. DS5 just seems unable to play nicely with his siblings. Yesterday he kicked down a tower than DS2 had made within seconds of going into the same room. When he was told if he couldn’t play nicely with them he couldn’t play with them and removed to his room for a timeout he did exactly the same thing when allowed back down. It’s very rare that I can leave a room that they are all in because he will hurt someone or do something to upset them. It all came to a head last night when a friend popped round and DS5 decided he wanted to ‘cuddle’ the younger ones whilst they were having their milk. He just wanted to annoy them and it did annoy and upset them and he just would not stop doing it until removed from the room. Friend stayed with him downstairs whilst I put the younger two to bed. I then took DS5 up for his stories and he decided to scream repeatedly in an attempt to wake the younger two. I was so so embarrassed in front of my friend, her children are really well behaved and I don’t know what I’m doing wrong or how to manage this behaviour. DS5 went for a sleepover at grandmas recently and DD3 and DS2 just played so nicely together and it seemed so easy, within 5 mins of him arriving home the next day someone was crying. I feel completely broken by his behaviour and just have no idea how to address it anymore. AIBU to be broken by this or is this just parenting? Any advice truely welcome

birdglasspen · 14/12/2023 12:56

He sounds a bit like my eldest. I have 3 boys 7, 4 and 2. The eldest needs a lot of 1 on 1 attention which is difficult when you have other children. I would try your best to make sure your eldest receives this with you, maybe staying up later to play a game with you or play with toys. Some parenting books call it golden time, it could just be 10 mins but it’s time just for him and you engage with him don’t look at phone or do jobs. Find things he enjoys doing with siblings and encourage this. He probably feels these two younger ones came along took all your attention from him and to get any attention now he plays up. Some children are just easier in general. Try concentrating on the things which are great about your son instead of focusing on his “bad” behaviour. Show him how he can teach his younger siblings things because he is older and knows how to do more. Install some feelings of pride in him about his role in the family.

SpeedyDrama · 14/12/2023 12:58

DS5 is extremely challenging and I’m really struggling to cope with it. At school he is well behaved and they have no concerns. At home he lacks all independence and will push back heavily on doing anything himself. He has to dress himself and I will not help with this as it’s an important skill, but he will ask repeatedly for assistance despite always getting the same answer.

I have sympathy with challenging behaviour, I still have to do pretty much everything for my 6 year old (but he does have global delays). However this bit made me feel so sorry for your son. He’s still very young, not long out of the toddler stage. ‘I will not help’ sounds so cold (I appreciate on the internet tone is difficult to convey), he may well be picking up on the fact you see him as a nuisance. Skills come with time, your son needs you for more than teaching - he also needs to know he’s comforted and safe no matter how small or even ridiculous the matter seems to you.

rudolphthedeer · 14/12/2023 13:04

Afraid to say that I can relate to your DS as I was the eldest of three and can remember (vividly, considering how young I was at the time) being equally annoying to my younger siblings. I felt that it wasn't fair, all the expectations were on me as the eldest and I had to constantly be more grown up than them even though age wise there wasn't much in it.

Now I look back and think how frustrating it would have been to my mum but at the time I didn't have the capacity to understand that, all I knew is that I felt it wasn't fair and I resented my siblings.

I think more 1:1 quality time with my mum would have helped.

oakleaffy · 14/12/2023 13:04

ThisisgroundcontroltoMajorTom · 14/12/2023 11:16

Sorry you are struggling op; you are not the only parent going through it with four and five year olds, an age where they discover their own strength and test boundaries,

This is classic attention seeking behaviour isn’t it? Poor behaviour is always a message. Your attention is bound to be more on his siblings, simply because of their age. And of course he won’t get dressed on his own because it means he has less of your attention if he does things independently. You have to instigate a reward system or at least ensure he receives lots of praise when he does something on his own.

In his eyes he’s had two siblings come in quick
succession to steal his thunder. He misses having all of your attention.

The key to this is having more one on one time with him without the other two. It’s so difficult when you are in the parenting trenches but try and find time every day.

And massively big up the praise when he gets things right.

Don’t let things deteriorate in to a negative cycle.
Ignore the bad and praise the good.

Instead of him getting attention for being naughty - try and turn it around so it’s you and him looking after the younger ones. He is your side kick. Your “special” helper. Emphasise all the things that he can do and they can’t.

He probably finds playing with his siblings frustrating, so change it to “looking after them” or “teaching them” instead.

Get him on board as “Mummy’s helper - oh aren’t the babies silly - I am sure you can show them how to behave”. Or “you are such a good big brother, you help Mummy so much and teach the babies so well” “Only you are old enough to drink milk properly with a glass, why not sit down and show the babies how to do it?”

I know it’s easy to say and not at all easy to do, but get your partner on board too and instead of always saying “don’t do that” change it around and say “can you show the babies how big boys do it?”

Good luck 💐. The fact that he behaves at school means you have taught him well. This negative behaviour is emerging at home because it’s where he knows he is safe and loved and can make his needs known.

Edited

Exactly this, He's been massively usurped by two young siblings after having a short time as an 'only', where he was apple of mum's eye, so it's very likely he is 'regressing' a bit to get a bit of attention again.

Primproperpenny · 14/12/2023 13:06

Excellent post by @ThisisgroundcontroltoMajorTom

Emmadowns · 14/12/2023 13:09

As others have said, scheduled one on one time is so important, have a set day and time for just time for the two of you.
All behaviour is communication, he is not behaving badly to be bad. If he is asking for help with his uniform then again he is trying to communicate something to you, does he want some physical attention (hugs and kissing) maybe, is he feeling anxious about school and leaving you.
It sounds like he is trying to assert himself and get your time and attention, find ways of meeting these needs in a positive way

rudolphthedeer · 14/12/2023 13:10

ThisisgroundcontroltoMajorTom · 14/12/2023 11:16

Sorry you are struggling op; you are not the only parent going through it with four and five year olds, an age where they discover their own strength and test boundaries,

This is classic attention seeking behaviour isn’t it? Poor behaviour is always a message. Your attention is bound to be more on his siblings, simply because of their age. And of course he won’t get dressed on his own because it means he has less of your attention if he does things independently. You have to instigate a reward system or at least ensure he receives lots of praise when he does something on his own.

In his eyes he’s had two siblings come in quick
succession to steal his thunder. He misses having all of your attention.

The key to this is having more one on one time with him without the other two. It’s so difficult when you are in the parenting trenches but try and find time every day.

And massively big up the praise when he gets things right.

Don’t let things deteriorate in to a negative cycle.
Ignore the bad and praise the good.

Instead of him getting attention for being naughty - try and turn it around so it’s you and him looking after the younger ones. He is your side kick. Your “special” helper. Emphasise all the things that he can do and they can’t.

He probably finds playing with his siblings frustrating, so change it to “looking after them” or “teaching them” instead.

Get him on board as “Mummy’s helper - oh aren’t the babies silly - I am sure you can show them how to behave”. Or “you are such a good big brother, you help Mummy so much and teach the babies so well” “Only you are old enough to drink milk properly with a glass, why not sit down and show the babies how to do it?”

I know it’s easy to say and not at all easy to do, but get your partner on board too and instead of always saying “don’t do that” change it around and say “can you show the babies how big boys do it?”

Good luck 💐. The fact that he behaves at school means you have taught him well. This negative behaviour is emerging at home because it’s where he knows he is safe and loved and can make his needs known.

Edited

I will say, though, that getting put in this "role" as the eldest where you're the good one, the "example setter" can get extremely trying. I'm 34 and still feel like I'm in this role when it comes to my siblings. You feel you can't do anything wrong, you have to be the sensible one, and ultimately you have to be responsible because you're the "eldest".

I think when you have more than one child it's really important not to put them into birth order stereotypes, e.g. the responsible eldest, the neglected middle and the carefree, indulged youngest.

hydriotaphia · 14/12/2023 13:15

I would give him the attention and babying he craves tbh. Agree to dress him, let little things go, find whatever you can to praise him about. This works with my 4 year old's attention seeking behaviour.

Kittylala · 14/12/2023 13:16

Ask yourself this question - would this behaviour be accepted by your parents and grandparents? I'm afraid you need to step up and parent. You are failing your son.

Santaiswashinghissleigh · 14/12/2023 13:16

Beware he doesn't see going to dgm's as being sent away.. I also had problems with dm bigging pfb up..

Newstaronthehorizon · 14/12/2023 13:17

Things that have worked 😁

Make a reward chart. For kind and thoughtful things he does unasked for his siblings he gets a reward ( tot up the reward points at the end that lead to something he is interested in, food, game, TV programme, day trip, etc )

Everything positive he gets reward points on a chart, so if he dresses himself without asking for any help, he gets a reward point that goes towards his favourite things.

For this to work well you will need to sit him down and ask him what does a good day look like to you?

What are his favourite activities? Food?

Everything becomes a bargaining chip so he associates kind, thoughtful behaviour with getting rewarded.

Have rewards for 5 good boy points, 10 good boy points 50 good boy points etc so he can clearly see where his good behaviour is leading to.

Clearly tell him and write it down the consequences of bad behaviour so he learns exactly what he will lose out on or how many points will be deducted from doing X or y.

Stick to it.

In my experience it has miraculous results 😁

Original poster

MachuPikachu · 14/12/2023 13:18

Thank you all for your comments, they are really useful.

we do know that a lot of it is attention seeking and do carve out one on one time every day. He has alone time with me 3 mornings a week as I take him to school whereas my husband takes the younger ones to nursery earlier. Plus I have an afternoon after school with him once a week where his siblings aren’t home yet. He also has his stories alone every night for half an hour. I think we’d really struggle to do more than this but will think about how we can fit it in.

the dressing might sound harsh but last year the reception teacher was saying we need to work on him dressing himself as at PE time he would just sit and wait for someone to help. He is in year 1 now. He can definitely do it himself he doesn’t struggle physically.

it’s really good to hear that we are not alone and this behaviour is normal. We have tried reward charts but frankly he just doesn’t care whether he gets a sticker/sweet/magazine or not so we end up giving up as it just doesn’t work.

OP posts:

rudolphthedeer · 14/12/2023 13:19

MachuPikachu · 14/12/2023 13:18

Thank you all for your comments, they are really useful.

we do know that a lot of it is attention seeking and do carve out one on one time every day. He has alone time with me 3 mornings a week as I take him to school whereas my husband takes the younger ones to nursery earlier. Plus I have an afternoon after school with him once a week where his siblings aren’t home yet. He also has his stories alone every night for half an hour. I think we’d really struggle to do more than this but will think about how we can fit it in.

the dressing might sound harsh but last year the reception teacher was saying we need to work on him dressing himself as at PE time he would just sit and wait for someone to help. He is in year 1 now. He can definitely do it himself he doesn’t struggle physically.

it’s really good to hear that we are not alone and this behaviour is normal. We have tried reward charts but frankly he just doesn’t care whether he gets a sticker/sweet/magazine or not so we end up giving up as it just doesn’t work.

The problem is that's all about making school's life easier, not necessarily what is right or appropriate for a five-year-old child.

WowOK · 14/12/2023 13:26

When I washaving an issue with my older daughters behaviour I called the HV. They organised for a nursery nurse to come to my house and observe our interactions. She gave me lots of advice on how to manage her behaviour. It might be worth a try.

Shrammed · 14/12/2023 13:30

We have tried reward charts but frankly he just doesn’t care whether he gets a sticker/sweet/magazine or not so we end up giving up as it just doesn’t work.

Ds was very like that and all, the advice seemed to centre round it. He did like instant verbal praise.

I'd still do part getting dressed despite what school says - focus on different areas each time and slowly set expectation he can do it himself. It will also flag up areas you'd though were fine but actually may be struggling - did with mine anyway.

Namechange800 · 14/12/2023 13:32

Hi. I agree with all the previous posters and I also think you should help him get dressed. He can get dressed himself, but I have a six-year-old who I still sometimes help get dressed, not because she can’t do it, but because on some days, she is tired or feeling worried about something at school or just wants a bit of one-to-one attention and I think it helps her to feel that connection.

nutsnutspistachionuts · 14/12/2023 13:37

It's all about perceptions and expectations. I consider my only child DS to be good as gold in many ways, but he did not get dressed independently at 5. School want them to be able to manage the garments, yes, in a motor skills way - but it's also about attention span. It was only at 6.5 that he started doing it without me going "ok, now your trousers, don't forget socks". It didn't bother me because I didn't have any expectations that it would be different. And all 5 year olds need nagging to put banana skins in the bin.

Nacknick · 14/12/2023 13:38

So much love and understanding on this thread. It’s really heart warming. Much love to your small boy ❤️

WonderLife · 14/12/2023 13:39

When your youngest is 5, you will look back and realise how little 5 is, honestly!

He is seeking out connection and nurturing from you - I'd try going all out on babying him for a while. Get him dressed, cut his food up, brush his teeth snuggle him with a cup of milk etc. All the stuff that the 2 year old gets.
Let go of the power struggle for a bit of making him be the independent big boy and see if he becomes more secure and less demanding (and more willing to be independent) as a result.

minuette1 · 14/12/2023 13:41

squeekychicken · 14/12/2023 11:45

His behaviour is not uncommon for his age and he's had to go from being an only child to two siblings in a very quick space of time. I think your expectations are possibly too high. Lots of 5 years still require support and prompting with dressing.

I totally agree with this - I see this so much with friends with small age gap children, where the parents seem to forget that the eldest is still very little too, and have had their whole world rocked by the arrival of siblings who due to their ages need more hands on parental resources - which the eldest still emotionally needs themselves but is expected to be mature than their age.

So what if he still asks for help getting dressed - maybe he does not need the help practically, but emotionally he is asking for you to give him more nurturing.

SingleMum11 · 14/12/2023 13:46

This looks like really classic unmet needs from your son. I’m not saying it’s easy for you to meet this needs, but I would strongly urge you to look at his behaviour as not ‘naughty’ but a communication.

His need to have help getting dressed is important. He just wants to know that you are still there to help him. Yes he may not necessarily be a 2 year old, but he has two younger siblings and it is his way of just checking to see if you are also able to be there for him.

And with two younger children, you just can’t be there for him in the same way.

He just needs more attention and stability. Do you have a family member or his father or even a great after school club? Like a grand parent, or someone who can have him for a bit to give him that attention.

Also, please do try and make time for him, real one on one direct time.

Itsnotallaboutyoulikeyouthink · 14/12/2023 13:49

He’s 5?! If he needs a bit of help dressing help him.

Maray1967 · 14/12/2023 13:53

First response nailed it. He’s upset and jealous and wants your attention. For what it’s worth, I still helped mine to dress at 5. He needs good, positive attention from you, and lots of praise. It’s very common for older ones to try to regress to get the attention that the younger ones are getting.

Maray1967 · 14/12/2023 13:58

I don’t mean to be unpleasant but you need to think about your post title from his point of view. He feels completely broken by the fact that you’ve brought two more children into the house.

You’re the adult here. Think about how his life has been turned upside down. Just because other people’s DC don’t exhibit jealousy does not mean it’s not normal when older ones do. It’s very normal and very understandable. You need to h deter and things from his point of view. Help him get dressed, give him attention. Help him to adjust.

Maray1967 · 14/12/2023 13:58

That should read - need to understand