Scouts is (or always was!) an incredibly middle class activity

[Greatballzoffire]

Just that. Our local one is full of very wealthy families, waiting list are years long & the children that could probably do with & afford scouts can't get in the door.
I always associated scouts as an inexpensive activity that all children can access. Ours seem to be predominantly full of middle class families who travel from other areas to our scout unit.

We offer a monthly fee payment option instead of termly, and have free second hand uniform available. (Separate to discounted fees if someone can't afford to oay)

I do think there's an element of self perpetuation. We joined because I wanted him to, my nephew joined cos we were there. My twins will go to Squirrels. I volunteer. Another volunteer comes with her daughter and two class mates joined because their friend went. So that's a little glut and because the two adults are WC, that glut is. I imagine that volunteers will pull in their own circle to a degree, waiting lists aside (we've only just started one)

Why do you need all that? Why are kids with additional needs excluded?

How many Beavers do you have? I wouldn't limit Beaver size based on current Cub staff etc. parent volunteers will or can move with their kids. O didn't buy if it meant he wouldn't have had a space, I would. Would have screwed Beavers a little short term if I left but I'd have done both until a replacement was dound

@SleepingStandingUp they do ask for parental involvement during normal work hours (wednesday 10 am to sort out equipment/clean the hut/…) and love to do surprise changes of location to some woodlands 20 min drive away….
Children (cubs upwards) who can’t go to camps (5 nights in a tent) can’t get badges etc. Many kids with disabilities can’t do 5 night in a tent without a carer, or deal with frequent last minute changes of plan

No waiting list here, we could do with more children at every level. Most are local to schools with 25% fsm kids. There are camps, but there is a fund for people who can't afford them, and fundraising for more expensive events. Quite a mixed cohort, but all very friendly. Lift sharing is regularly offered and arranged.

@Smerk Do you use external instructors for activities? Climbing, sailing, kayaking type stuff. Local unit did that, the Scouts and Ventures got a higher standard that way. Weekends it took pressure off usual Leaders.

My parents, both from working class families met through scouts / guides which were heavily enmeshed with church communities. Which is why I've always avoided it for.my own children. I don't feel safeguarding is adequate, particularly when they are so desperate for volunteers. But not a class thing.

It's not that wealthy people have more time, it's that they make more time.

There might be less single parents, but often they have moved for jobs and don't always have other family to help. Whereas often even the single household families have family support nearby in the social housing estate.

I don't know what the answer is as often there is good support for other local initiatives on the scheme like community council etc.

Maybe they do think Scouts is posh and not for them if there is no history of having a local troup? I grew up in a rough city estate and went to brownies and had a choice of groups, brothers went to a mix of cubs/Scouts and Boys brigade.

So I would never see it as a mc activity but maybe if I grew up without there being groups on the estate maybe I'd think differently? DH grew up in an industrial village and feels same as me but his group was more mixed as the village also had managers and a "posh" street.

They're not - I'm a cub leader and in the 12 or so years I've been doing it we've had lots of children with additional needs (all different types) along with several children in foster care. There are a lot of myths on this thread. However, the shortage of leaders is not a myth - I lost 3 leaders in the last 12 months due to house moves and I've not got anyone to replace them, so I have to keep my numbers down to cope.

I honestly wouldn't know where to start, even as a newish Beaver Leader. I wouldn't know where to hold it without a lot of research, and where does the start up money come from? Ok so there's other be two parents interested to split the work but how many Beavers is that and shit someone needs to do the books. Now we need a bank account. So there's our two kids and a few more interested but their parents won't help. How do I get nekkers and how do you work out a name for your group and choose a nekker? What insurance do we need and crap what happens if Johnny falls over and has a lump on his head? Should have got first aid training....

It isn't like just inviting some mates round to play is it. Of you have a history of doing it and being in it, it's possibly pretty easy but for a parent who might even be willing to donate an hour or so a week to HELP, expecting them to legally and safety go off and start a group is a big ask

Ours is a mix although we’re in an affluent area and the majority of people here are middle class!
I wonder why you think those who would benefit more “can’t get in the door” because it’s full of kids from wealthy families. Surely if you put your name on the list then you’ve got as much chance of a place as anyone else.

Is that all parents required on the weekday 10am or can you help in other ways? I have had no issues driving with only one car being a single parent, though yes no car would require organising lifts with other parents.

It would just be another night for the same scout group. Ours has two beaver nights, two cubs, two scouts.

We used to organise lift shares all the time and when DC were beavers age and a were working parents we took turns at basically feeding 4 after school to get them all ready for beavers and dropped off/collected. That meant sorting it basically once a month. But it requires effort and coordination.

You don't just get thrown in at the deep end. Your District Commissioner is there to support new start-ups, all the other leaders are usually very helpful and there is a start-up fund from scouting HQ. You also get lots of training, including first aid. If you wanted to start a section, I'd start by contacting your local HQ. You can go onto scouts.org and say you want to volunteer and they will contact you.

https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteer/volunteer-enquiry-form/

I’ve found that the MC often like cheap and wholesome activities and flock to them. One reason Sure Start Centres closed was because the people they were targeting for support often weren’t interested and instead the MC wanted to join all the activities - and it wasn’t them that the government wanted to fund and support. Scouting and Guides do lots of outside activities, craft, charity etc. MC families often enjoy these seemingly simple activities and might well attend other stuff too such as swimming lessons, dance, sports classes.

I have also found that often the extremely privileged (boarding school kind of families) are less likely to be involved. Families with live-in Nannies and school hours that keep the kids at school until 6 and beyond often get most of their extra-curricular through school. Quite often they are not so invovled in the local community or community activities…..but generalisation of course.

And I think that most groups/classes and self-perpetuating in terms of the families they attract. People do like to go to things with ‘people like us’ and can feel uncomfortable being with those who might seem a bit different. It’s a shame, but it works in all directions. If there are a choice of local Scout groups , they might keep their local flavour because families who want to go find out about them and choose the one that seems to fit with their friends and ‘type’ of people. We like to think we aren’t bothered by this stuff, but actually most people are on some unwitting level.

Some types of family are more likely to be thinking ahead about extra curriculars, future schools etc etc. It’s a cultural thing to either think ahead or not. It’s a subtle barrier to entry. Of course no-one is preventing anyone of any background from putting their child’s name down. But word gets round amongst the middle classes when they meet at NCT classes, that you need to get your name down early…so people do it. Some groups miss the memo. Often it’s an example if ‘cultural capital’ and knowing the systems and how to make sure you’re on lists and at the front if the queue.

This is a similar thing to why certain groups apply to take 11+ or organise tutoring or preparation in advance whilst other groups with equally able kids don’t. Some know the system and some just don’t and awarent even aware there’s a system to know until they are on top of it and find they’ve missed the boat and you needed to sign-up years ahead.

There are all kinds of subtle reasons why people are able to or not able to access opportunities. Obvious forms of discrimination are far less common in most things these days. Most organisations are looking to broaden access and are aware of how cost can be a barrier. But it’s the other more subtle things of people feeling ‘thats not for people like us’ which continue as barriers and are very difficult to overcome and often generated by the users if the service more than the providers.

@BigBoysDontCry that also requires that they all are at the same school, or you live close. Nobody from my kids school went to the same beavers group (2-3 years waiting list, so you can’t change groups). Kids come from 7 different primary school…

My dd goes to guides so not sure if it's very different to scouts but it's located in our town which was an old mining town. Lots of new housing estates have been built here and the town has gotten a lot bigger. It was typically a working class area but now has a real mix of middle and working class people. The volunteers are all lovely people and go above and beyond. My dd is shy and it has really helped her make friends with other little girls and helped her with confidence and teamwork. She can only go because dh takes her as I work on that day and am not normally home till after she starts. Appreciate it would be hard if both parents are working full time or perhaps shifts but we work around each other so he can take her.

Our Squirrel section is at the 24 child max, and Beavers are also at 24 (really the limit for the hut size) so it would be a second weekly meeting required for both. Which is a massive commitment from the leaders even with a couple of parent volunteers each week.

All my helpful DBSed parents are moving up to Beavers after Xmas so I have to start all over again getting the new Squirrel parents engaged.

A PP suggested second hand jumpers - we already resell generic red jumpers + a Squirrels logo badge for new starters at a fraction of the cost of the official jumper from the Scout store.

Participation in activities is often governed by money, transport, parent's free time and energy. Which often means that better off/middle class families are disproportionately represented, sadly. Our Scouts are like this because you can only get to meetings by car.

@Conkersinautumn , It will vary from area to area, my experience is that most are not closely connected to churches, even if they use church premises. Four Groups I know have own premises on separate land. Safeguarding is taken very seriously, I used to keep the CRB register. We dismissed one leader as he was a bit 'Gung Ho' with young kids. Nothing serious just a bit 1950s.

Leaders have to retire at 65 I think. So 'old farts' get excluded.

It was a challenge when we opened Scouts to girls. But the novelty soon wore off.

You don't need to start up a separate group. Groups can have more than on section in it.

e.g. our group has 1 x Squirrels, 1 x Beavers, 2 x Cubs and 2 x Scouts

So you don't need to worry about the answers to most of those questions as your current executive committee and GSL will organise the books, the insurance etc.

But as a newish Beaver Leader it sounds like you need to progress some of your training as you do need to know these and it would provide you with some assurance and help with confidence.

@PhoebesHusband no retirement age... our Scout Leader is 73 and going strong! The old GSL only stood down when his eyesight failed... still the Quartermaster. Cub leader is late 60s. Beaver leader is early 60s. I'm the "baby" at 37.