Scouts is (or always was!) an incredibly middle class activity

[Greatballzoffire]

Just that. Our local one is full of very wealthy families, waiting list are years long & the children that could probably do with & afford scouts can't get in the door.
I always associated scouts as an inexpensive activity that all children can access. Ours seem to be predominantly full of middle class families who travel from other areas to our scout unit.

If a few parents including yourself became leaders they could maybe start a second group up on another night.

If the waiting lists are so long, why aren’t more parents getting together to set up a second group?

I don't think I've ever come across a more inclusive (in terms of social status, income etc) organisation.

DH and I both from deprived backgrounds but DC relatively privileged in that we had average income and focused time on DC.

Both DC went through scouts until adulthood and DS1 now volunteers.

They've recently opened an extra group and specifically located it in the local social housing estate and advertised it in the local primary. However, as always the volunteers are all from upper wc/middle class but attendance is building and it eliminates travel issues for poorer families.

I'm not entirely sure why there is less engagement in terms of volunteering adults from poorer backgrounds as it's a complex issue. Childcare for other DC, confidence etc for a start. It would do the kids no end of good to have people more their own famies involved I think.

As regards finances, my experience has been that scouts would not want that to be a barrier to attendance, they will support with fees and uniforms and trips.

The longer foreign trips can be expensive but there is always fundraising happening which can cover most of it if people are willing to get involved and again, scouts will try to support as much as they can to ensure everyone gets an opportunity. I've spent many a long day at fundraising events for trips where my DC weren't even going.

In my experience guiding and scouting are one of the most affordable extra curricular activities out there -DC's work out at less than £4 a session. I realise £4 will still be too much for some but I think that outside of free stuff you'd struggle to find something that provides better value for money in terms of enjoyment, life skills etc.

Not where I came from in South London. It was very working class, and from what the family tells me, it still is.

Hi to anyone in GLSW!

@blabla2023 how do they exclude people who both work full-time or don't have a car at short notice? Genuinely not a goady question: I am involved in Scouting and want to make sure we're not inadvertently doing something that excludes people in the same way.

Isn’t the problem that the activities at Scouts and Guiding are often things that a lot of less affluent families do not value or do not think of as fun?

Doing your stamp collecting badge and learning to square lash a toilet roll holder, followed by a sing-song and some charity fundraising is not the kind of stuff that Chantelle and Big Steve are likely to think little Kasey-Kai will get a kick out of. They’re putting all their funds and energy into the football club.

I would say middle-class nearly ALWAYS participate in low and no cost activities. Bookbug at the library is filled with middle-class parents, for example. The parents I met there are the ones I still meet a decade later at the Art Gallery £2 Summer Activity sessions.

I think middle-class parents are more likely to insist on children continuing to attend Scouts as their child becomes a teenager.

Do you mean the timings of the beavers section are too early? Ours runs one early group and another at 6pm another night. I'm a single parent, so one car, and work full time.

I put YABU because that’s definitely not the case here no long waiting lists and pretty average people.

It's probably more to do with the area you live in.

Also, its not a surprise that it appeals to the middle class. Looking at the social-economical side of it, people with higher incomes tend to put more emphasis on sports & outdoor activities.

@Greatballzoffire , it wasn't mc when I was in it. Local one is a bit mc but not exclusively so. Because that is how our village is.
Have you looked at what is on offer within Scouting nationally. Perhaps the local Group only does some of the activities.
If you want to start another Group get in touch and HQ will help you.

A scout group used to be based in a hall opposite me when I lived in my old house. Working class/deprived area.

Have you thought about setting up another group?

Our closest one was in a very MC area. It had a waiting list of years. The one DS went to was in a very poor area and it was awful. He didn't stay long. There were no planned activities, no outings, no camps. They basically just ran around the hall for an hour and half and had a tuck shop.

There is no real waiting list in our area because every time a new age cohort comes up, the parents of that group just create a new unit.

I guess that supports your point op, it’s a very middle class school catchment area. The parents are expected to volunteer and they do. Other groups might not have the same time or the money to offset the costs of volunteering.

@FlatterNow for ours, you needed a car available as last minute notifications “meeting will be at xyz, 20 min drive away, children who don’t join won’t qualify for the badge“ were fairly common. same with requirements like help to clean the scout hall thingy (of course at 10 on a workday!) etc. We stopped, it wasn’t possible to do all these things.

My DD6 goes to Rainbows. When she was almost 5, I put her name on the waiting list as you have to be 5 to join. They said she was unlikely to get a space as they have an 18 month waiting list. There are 46 girls on the waiting list.
I asked if I could volunteer so she could skip the queue, and she started the week after she turned 5.

In our unit of 15, 3 go to private school, 10 go to two different outstanding school around a 0.5 miles away and 2 go to the good school next to the scouts hut. I would say 75% of the children will be MC and all live in two parent households. We live in a affluent area, with a choice of excellent schools. None of the 15 children are on FSM and none of them have EAL. All can read and write to their appropriate levels.

If you travel 3 miles down the road in the same town, the Rainbows is not oversubscribed at all. The children in that catchment area have a choice of 3 good schools, two of which have a BU, and all of them are in lower income areas. They have a higher than average FSM, EAL and many of them get support with fees. Almost all of them will be WC.

Area completely dictates how MC or WC a unit will be.

Our units termly fees are £50 instead of £30 for the latter unit. With the additional fees, we hold an outing once a term (rock climbing, zumba classes, cinema, pantomimes etc), and have an outside agency come to see us once a term, such as an animal holder, or Elsa for their Christmas party).

Having a pop at the MCs MNs OP?
Nice try

didn't think such a simple, affordable activity would be as attractive to the middle classes

You seem to be suggesting that people with more money wouldn’t like scouting because it’s affordable?! That’s a really odd mindset. People choose to do things for reasons other than the cost. Maybe they like the values? The range of activities? The fact it’s after school rather than 8am on a Sunday morning? The fact that you don’t need to be especially coordinated or ‘good’ at anything to be it, unlike football or karate?

Saying that only skint people should do scouting is a very odd mindset.

Not the case here. Our subs per term ar £12! Per term! Very popular and accessible to families from all walks of life and represented in the children who attend. Amazing group

Do they have an external source of income? I don't that even covers the annual fee to HQ... (which covers insurance, training etc)

ETA... its £38 in 2024

Mine have done scouts (I never did as it wasn’t for people like “us”).
I felt like you did, but actually as I’ve got to know people within the entire scout world it’s not been the case at all.
volunteers tend to be wealthier as they have the time and the knowledge.

it Does seem very very area dependant, our area group has some incredibly wealthy areas and their scouts and leaders reflect the “jolly hockey sticks” type. Other areas the volunteers are self employed tradesman, so typically working class.

give it time, get involved if you feel you can. It’s been just incredible for my children, and my family. I never thought ours would be “my sort of people”, but they absolutely are.

This thread has made me think about how we can make our group more accessible to lower income families. We have already had a request to operate minibus transport to camp (not very accessible on public transport) which we've put in place for Spring.

Opening a second section is not an option for us without a serious increase in leaders as we'd need duplicates of all sections to accommodate the additional children as they age up in Beavers, Cubs, Scouts etc. Our section needs 5 adults for a normal meeting and 7 for a trip as it is (if we had full attendance).

We already open up our trips and camps to neighbouring groups in lower income areas with fewer leaders and children. We also advertise these groups to parents wishing to join our waiting list but most prefer to wait for our group.

Is there anything else we could realistically do?