Scouts is (or always was!) an incredibly middle class activity

[Greatballzoffire]

Just that. Our local one is full of very wealthy families, waiting list are years long & the children that could probably do with & afford scouts can't get in the door.
I always associated scouts as an inexpensive activity that all children can access. Ours seem to be predominantly full of middle class families who travel from other areas to our scout unit.

When Baden Powell started scouting in 1907 he deliberately mixed boys from several social classes for the experimental camp on brownsea island.
We have endeavoured to keep that the case ever since with the children we have (scouting allowed girls in the 90s for all Sections)

Of course most groups will reflect the local population fairly accurately but that's to be expected

And no group wants to have a waiting list. We would much rather open additional sections so we didn't have to have one. But as always we don't have enough adults to run the sections we do have as we would like to let alone open more.

It's honestly doable even while working full time and is very rewarding

It was running a session or no place in my area - maybe it varies in different areas

it would be very unusual for a child to be turned away if it was impossible for their parent to help out at the occasional session. That said, there are very few people who genuinely can’t help - even if they need to ask a grandparent, sibling, or adult child to attend in their place. However, if you can genuinely NEVER help, or help in a different way, then it does seem unfair to turn your child away.

However, this is a different situation to allowing a child to jump the waiting list if the parent volunteers to help on a regular basis/be a leader. It’s only fair to allow this , as extra leaders mean the group can continue to operate, or even expand if enough step up.

I'm not being aggressive. It just makes absolutely no sense and isn't realistic given the state of finances for numerous groups I know. Some can't afford ANYTHING - some are struggling to keep afloat at all. And they tend to be the ones in the least affluent areas too, who certainly couldn't afford to then raise subs to find it - because that would force more into hardship cases which can't be sustained by the rest of the parents.

I'm saying it because I know how desperate finances are for many groups across our district. I know how we've bailed out other groups in the past in various ways.

We are an affluent group by the districts standards. And even we can not afford to fund anyone part time and if we can't it makes it absolutely impossible for any other in the district. Our treasurer is a close friend and I know the state of the books. We have some reserves but we still need to spend it wisely to ensure long term viability. That includes ensuring we have enough money for the maintenance of the building as you point out as being a huge consideration. We have to rely on volunteers. And I don't think we are that unrepresentative.

Given the premise of this thread is about scouts being middle class and out of reach of many working class families, (which I don't think is particularly true) I find suggesting adding additional costs to parents absolutely insane too. It a total missing of the context of the thread.

Beyond that the issue I have really is about parents who think they can just want to buy their way into scouts and then wash their hands of it. If you want a professional organisation like that join cadets. That's not scouting.

Scouting isn't about that at all. It's about community engagement and involvement. And that for me includes parents who understand and value that. The second you allow 'buy in' it kills the ethos of that and kills a huge part of scouting. It comes from leading from example and putting back and then encouraging the kids to do the same. If you miss the point with that, you don't understand scouting at all - it's just another activity after school.

Or will people still be complaining about Scouting, Guiding and the lack of volunteers and spaces for their children in 2050?

I'm not convinced they'll still exist, certainly not by the end of the century. Society has changed unrecognisably since they were founded.

I know it’s not what you or anyone else wants, but if society is changing then it may be a case of adapt or die?

My son is currently in scouts in the north east and there is definitely a mix. The leaders are amazing and really inclusive.
Growing up my local cubs and scouts were from all social classes from children in the local primary to cousins of the future king. Everyone was there as an equal in the corrugated iron village hall. That was the brilliant thing about it (apart from I had to go to guides in the next village because I was a girl!)

It's your area, not the Scouts, and you don't have nearly enough information to make sweeping generalisations about what it's ' always been'. The organisation is over 100 years old!

Volunteering isn’t just ‘running a Section’. Yes that is great, but groups also need a board of trustees, as it a chair, secretary, someone just to voice an opinion etc. some of these roles can take up as little as an hour three times a year, and not one person can tell me they don’t have three hours a year to spare to help, no matter how much else they do! The issue is everyone assumes volunteering with scouts means kids.. but that’s not correct.

I went to brownies on the council estate I grew up on. Our idea of a camp was sleeping on the floor of community centre where it happened, going to the local park at night and the rough chippy on the way back 😂. Genuinely the least middle class extort my life!

Were they trying to start another night at the time? You wouldn't have a parent of every child running a session.

I think a PP is referring to their local group having a Parent Rota. Some groups enforce these. Not a fan personally... even just a small snapshot we get of our Cubs lives how it could be a stress too far for some families.

Surely the only problem is there are not enough volunteers to meet demand? If there is a long waiting list they need another group to open. The solution to that is in your hands.

Oh OK, it was the way they said 'running a session', like to be the one in charge, not 'helping with a session'. It would be few parents that couldn't help on an occasional night or send a family member in their place. We have a young leader who brings his little cousin and that's every week.

Parent rotas can be an excellent volunteer recruitment tool. If all parents have to come along to help on occasion, then sometimes you’ll find a parent or two who really enjoy it, and volunteer a bit more, or even step up every week.

I do accept though that it can be very difficult for some parents - and an individuals circumstances should be taken into account. But it’s quite rare that a family can’t provide any help at all - even if it means sending along a grandparent, aunt, friend etc, having to bring a younger sibling for the evening, or helping at a weekend activity or fundraiser instead.

I think it's doable depending on your job.
I've been a leader over 10 years, it used to be easier for me to run sessions etc BUT my job has become far more stressful with more hours (over my full time) making it incredibly hard to plan and run sessions. I am the only leader.. we lost 4 after covid.. Ive pleaded with parents to help but none will. I've announced that the group will close by summer if parents don't step up. (Im a full time working line parent with no financial help
or other help with my dc - they come with me to meetings / camp and are now young leaders but I cannot carry this on balancing everything much longer).

as for being middle class.. that is entirely down to your area.. we've had children brought to us from over 15 miles away because of the reputation of the group. I know a local group, because of their location, also has some very affluent members and their camps are amazing due to parents being able to afford more than the average parent. There's also another local group who fundraisers and subsidies the group and their camps because they are in a poorer area and this is the only holiday a year these children have.

Or those who can't help are put off joining, as that poster was referring too. She couldn't help so her children couldn't join.

Or those who can't help are put off joining, as that poster was referring too. She couldn't help so her children couldn't join

As I said, an individual’s circumstances should be taken into account. No child should be turned away because their parent or another family member can’t help. However, I do think circumstances where a family can truely give no help at all, in any form, are very rare.

My son's cubs had a camp on the floor of the scout hut on Friday! And they have previously gone for a night walk past the waterworks and over the canal to Hackney, and another walk where they had to tick off restaurants of 10 nations and got chips from the last one.

Who needs Korea I say

Being a trustee or similar carries big responsibilities though. It's not just 3 hours of meetings a year, you have to be on top of the paperwork, particularly financial, and be prepared to ask difficult questions, because trustees are responsible and could be at risk of losing their own personal finances if things aren't run properly. I know several people who won't volunteer for this kind of role because of that.

I'm someone who has done about 15 years of volunteering in uniformed organisations, but now I don't. Because of lack of time. My job is full on, involves travel and is unpredictable. I am happy to do ad hoc parent rota type stuff but I fill in gaps. I'm also sandwich generation so have elderly relatives to run around after as well as a child - this is increasingly common now people have kids later in life. You probably can't tell just by looking which of the parents who don't volunteer are also running around after elderly parents and frantically juggling that with work.

This. It's the whole 'i can't possibly do one night because I'd have to bring my other child' nonsense. Well bring your other child then. No one really cares and the kids will love looking after little ones and involving them in most cases and the older will be happy enough sulking in a corner.

It's so rare that people can't rather than it being inconvenient. It's inconvenient to everyone though.

I ceased to buy into this a long time ago. You get to know parents. You get to know leaders. It's a mindset thing. It's not a full-time commitment to do one session a term and juggle things for one week in the way it's made out by some here. It's just an excuse.

I get why people don't want to do it weekly, but you grow tired of the excuses for one off requests when you know how much you sacrifice yourself to make things possible for everyone else all the time.

Its bollocks.

There are a whole variety of things that help, many already mentioned. Also helping to set up camps, helping to pack up, taking tents to dry, shopping, helping with lifts, manning stalls for fundraising, printing and delivering leaflets, going on night walks as an extra pair of hands, ensuring that your DC are doing their share to help others, passing on used kit/uniforms, raising funds etc etc etc.

Even just asking if there us anything you can do after explaining your particular circumstances.

@MaybeDoctor but the groups don't have that money to pay someone.

For each £1 our group gets we have to pay 70p to the district. So all normal activities, hall rental, saving funds for equipment, hardship fund and other expenses are covered with 30% of the actual subscription paid. I know that DH often doesn't bother claiming small expenses back (he is Chief Scout leader/chairman until recently).

That's why it's important the people gift aid as that money stays with the group.

I absolutely get why people can't help. Lots of people can't. Nobody is expecting superhuman efforts-and many people genuinely can't commit to anything regular.

But as I said- we used to carry boats and kayaks past parents sitting in their cars-some of whom would then complain that we were late finishing! Obviously some would have a good reason-but all of them? Every week?

I know a lot of scout leaders don't claim every expense back. They certainly don't claim petrol back.

If we run a camp whoever is buying the food pays the money upfront and then is reimbursed. It's one reason we've done camps with less well off troops in the past because their leaders can't do that as easily as they just don't have the money in the bank to do it and they can't get their treasurers to sign off releasing the money quickly enough from receiving payment from parents who may be paying in installments for camp. Good governance means they have to be so careful about releasing money without a receipt. It can be done but it's risky and it's difficult if you find prices in the supermarket aren't as expected (cos they've gone up or your had to substitute an item due to it being out of stock).

The last one I did was a food shop of £300. It's not insignificant.