Scouts is (or always was!) an incredibly middle class activity

[Greatballzoffire]

Just that. Our local one is full of very wealthy families, waiting list are years long & the children that could probably do with & afford scouts can't get in the door.
I always associated scouts as an inexpensive activity that all children can access. Ours seem to be predominantly full of middle class families who travel from other areas to our scout unit.

For the very first Scout Camp on Brownsea Island, Baden Powell literally got children from different social backgrounds and mixed them up for a week. One of the great things about Scouting is that kids from different schools and areas get to know each other. Most groups and districts will be able to offer support to those struggling to afford activities but they don't necessarily know who needs help so be sure to have a chat with the leaders if that's something you need.

Not read full thread but I agree with original post. We were priced out of scouts! The free or reasonably priced local camps were great then they started going overseas. DS wasn't getting all the camping badges and couldn't go on to be a leader or whatever it was due to having less overnight stays. When they told me it was "only" an extra £240 a month for 10 months for him to go camping g to Ireland then Switzerland before kit and camp specific hoodies, kilts etc etc we had to stop. Single parent with no financial support so it was unaffordable. We live in quite a deprived area and by the time we got to scouts it was middle class and upwards only. Beavers started out being very inclusive of the local community. Such a shame.

Where I am if anything its the reverse. Its much more affordable than amost any other activity and has a high proportion of low income kids.

I'm not important enough to know these, I'm not THE beaver leader, just an assistant one. But I do have the first aid training 😁

My son decided to apply for and got selected for the world scout Jamboree in Korea. We aren't affluent - far from it. I don't work as I'm an unpaid carer for his brother so we dont have spare money. My son worked extremely hard to fundraise despite having his own SEN issues and is still paying the amount back to us (we paid it using money left to him by a grandparent passing away). He did stalls, wrote to organisations to ask for funding and grants, and sold a lot of his old things on ebay. It wasn't just open to affluent parents - anyone could apply and be selected and work hard to go. And we live in a deprived region of the UK so it's not like he could charge some of the very high prices for things that others seemed to be doing!

@jocktamsonsbairn similar to us , only for us it wasn’t money (we didn’t get that far), but (mild!!) special needs. No long camping trips from age 8, no badges. So why he could gave gone to the weekly sessions, he could not get most badges.
He went to a mainstream school, no ehcs, so relatively mild special needs. But several nights camping were not possible.

Scout volunteers have no more time than anyone else, it’s a mindset thing, not a class thing! Every scout leader at my group works full time and has a family, as well as volunteering. We are in a working class town and are constantly struggling for help. We have a lots of kids with non working / stay at home parents, not one of them has the time to help apparently! Scouting is very much open to all, if we do a high priced activity then we will fund raise for it, but children have to attend that fundraiser in to benefit from it to make it fair. We have free second hand uniform for those that need it. Scouting is not a class based activity and ever child no matter what background, race, religion etc is treated the same. Sounds like the OP mindset is more the issue than anything

That is ridiculous.

Even our very m/c group only does a foreign trip every 4-5 years and then it's 18 months of small payments.
Maybe 1/3 of the group only goes.

Weeklong camps are around £500-600 in Summer and may be half of the children go.

While certain badges are linked to number of overnight stays, our group always did local ones and in some cases only food was required to pay as the location was free.

I think your leaders are trying to hard to impress.

To get the top awards...
Beavers need 2 nights away in two years
Cubs need 3 nights away in three years
Scouts need 8 nights away in 3.5 years (including the expedition).

They don't need to go on week long camps miles away!

The Kings Scout Award and Explorer belt do require more but there is lots to do without getting those awards... they are extremely difficult for a reason

DS has the Queens scout award, he was able to use some of his DofE for that.

Ours have even done movie nights sleeping in the hall. Completely no cost, they bring some snacks in to share but wouldn't be turned away if they couldn't bring anything.

"Scouting is not a class based activity and ever child no matter what background, race, religion etc is treated the same. Sounds like the OP mindset is more the issue than anything"

In simplistic terms, Scouting is indeed open to all. But it's honestly not helpful to brush the hidden barriers to participation in any activity under the carpet. This doesn't just apply to Scouts, of course-it applies to any activity. For example- if you're already involved in Scouting you'll know that the big, expensive trips to Jamborees and things like that are few and far between and only a couple of kids go. But looking from the outside, it would be easy to think "I can't afford that-it's not for us." Our Scouts was only really accessible by car-and finished late. So very difficult for single parents, or night workers. Free uniform is often available- but asking for and accepting free stuff can be a huge hurdle. It's complicated.

When joining and at each point of moving group, the leaders have always had a discreet conversation about fees and uniforms and trips and the support they are able to offer. I presume they do this with everyone as we don't particularly give off an impoverished vibe. I guess that makes it easier to agree that you need support rather than specifically needing to ask. It does however mean that you've had to take that first step and put yourself out there to join. I'm sure there is information like that on the website too.

I’m not sure if we’d have the same idea of what middle class is but a simple affordable activity is exactly the sort of thing most middle class people I know are up for, like camping etc. The late Queen did brownies as a child I believe so it’s obviously always had a reputation as good wholesome activity for children. We would probably class ourselves and village as middle class, generally work on professional jobs like nurses and teachers, accountants, social workers etc but most of us don’t have much money. Enough to not have to worry about food and clothes for our children and have decent housing but definitely not much left over after that

That’s completely it

feeling like you can ask is a huge hurdle. No one wants to feel like charity.

ultimately scouts is like anything with multiple units, he it shops, schools, doctors, hospitals etc etc. Some are better than others, some are more inclusive than others. Chuck in the volunteer aspect and you’ve why it differs so much.

Ours have never done a foreign trip (except for jamboree)

week long camps and activities are around £200-£300

weekend camps are around £15-£40 depending where they go.
they have a minibus to take them and loads of spare kit.

And all of that can be free or subsidised at ours.

this thread just shows my point above, it’s like anything with multiple units, they differ, wildly.

@PuttingDownRoots that’s the official line. but in the end it depends on the group leader, and with 2-3 years waiting lists you can’t change.
My son was at 8 years old very much marked as a “looser”, so we left. Absolutely no consideration…

@VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji "ultimately scouts is like anything with multiple units, he it shops, schools, doctors, hospitals etc etc. Some are better than others, some are more inclusive than others. Chuck in the volunteer aspect and you’ve why it differs so much."

I agree. But I do think the problem starts before that. Our Scouts was excellent, worked very hard on being inclusive, and had very good volunteers. And was basically free to anyone who needed it to be. But it still didn't represent the demographic of its "catchment" area even remotely. And there was a LOT of "it's not for people like us." The same applies to many activities run for children.

And that will (sadly) never change. There is so much in life I’ve heard and felt like that, grammar schools, seeking mental health support, cricket, Rugby, university.
at the other end it’s why aldi and lidl have had to work so hard to change perceptions.
this mindset of who you are and what box you fit in can be generational.

i grew up in a household that would believe it’s not for us, when I sent mine my family were incredibly judgemental about it. “she’s getting ahead of herself again”

I thought mine would never stick at it and it was a silly idea, but got harassed by a mum at the school as our children were friends. It’s been the absolute making of mine, they’ve made lifelong friends, these are lovely friends, they’ve had opportunities I could only have dreamed of and I am so so thankful that mum harassed me.

I've said before that the reasons for non engagement are many and complex but one of them is parental laziness and you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Some people just can't be bothered. They can't be bothered taking the DC, organising stuff for trips etc. It's easier for them just to sit and play computer games etc.

I'm not sitting in my ivory tower here, I grew up this way, with non lazy parents, but in amongst it. My DCs school friends were sometimes similar. Obviously not all families, but quite a lot. If something was organised by school and they didn't have to do anything then the kids could go, otherwise no chance.

Dad's tended to be better if it was football or similar.

@BigBoysDontCry Bloody hell. I think you said the quiet bit out loud.

The one I went to was in a deprived (ish) area. So pretty much nobody was posh. It is expensive though, between the uniforms and camping kit. It was great though.

Very much agree about the mindset thing.

There's a saying "if you want something done, ask a busy person"

The scout leaders I know are the people with the most hectic lives - regardless of class. They are people who can't sit still.

But there’s no judgment here.

some parents are lazy, but most have more going on in the background than just being lazy.
financial concerns,

• scouts is, (or should be) a cheap activity, but it’s so fucking hard constantly saying no to your kids. Why would you add something else to say no to.
• In these last few months I’ve seen multiple families who were doing ok, go from that to “shit, we are literally JUST getting by”. Even though it’s cheap, you might not want to risk adding to your bills.

mental health issues,

• Social anxiety around physically taking your child, feeling like it’s “not for you” or having to talk to people.

abusive homes

• it’s yet another nose to poke in

instability of renting

• Your not really part of the community, so why bother having something else to take away from your children when that inevitable eviction notice lands.

and the big one
mental load

• life is busy, life is hard. More so if you’re juggling full time work, shitty pay, shift work, making ends meet. Trying to get dinner done and the kids out when you’ve multiple children. For some. It’s just too much.

you can say it’s priorities, and it is. But some of those will just feel insurmountable to others. Very very few are actually “lazy” despite what you’ve read in the daily mail.

😂I wish mumsnet had a like post button

In fairness, a friend signed her children up but was told that, to get a spot, she or her husband had to volunteer in some way. The waiting list was so long that the children would have been too old by the time they got to the top otherwise.