Scouts is (or always was!) an incredibly middle class activity

[Greatballzoffire]

Just that. Our local one is full of very wealthy families, waiting list are years long & the children that could probably do with & afford scouts can't get in the door.
I always associated scouts as an inexpensive activity that all children can access. Ours seem to be predominantly full of middle class families who travel from other areas to our scout unit.

Op, if you want to prioritise local children, then can you not have a "catchment area" unofficially?

People coming from all over other areas to join your Scout Group isn't right.

I would not say middle class, but it can get expensive ,with the cost of uniform, subs, camping trips, sponsorship when they are doing some activities etc. My daughter used to go to Brownies and Guides and it all mounted up. If you have more than one child going it is a good amount but then again most children's activities are expensive if you are limited budget.

Hahaha, definitely not. Very working class, DS started in cubs and went to scouts.

It doesn't seem right to exclude children if it is their nearest group though, only at the point that another group is closer.

I'd say there needs to be another night started and prioritise children if their parents are willing to step up and be leaders or weekly helpers.

Hid forbid middle class children have something to do. Jesus.

Not the case here.
All sort of childrenand it a cheap activity too.
But more grown up volunteers needed!

Children shouldn't be excluded like that though... At my group we'd organise it so that the cost is subsidised through through group fund raising that everyone helps to take part in, our local charity car park, quiz nights, duck races, raffles, bag packing at the local supermarkets, jack petchy awards etc.

Yes, it is usually great value for money, and now there is an availability of 2nd hand uniforms, and often support funds even for those, there should be wider access, if only we could get more leaders to add children to roll, and open new units.

There does tend to be access for those who are prepared to volunteer at some level, which is possibly why you have the situation in your area, but there is full support and financial help for anyone who wants to start a new unit, and there is nothing stopping you putting a child's name down - however, you do find that those "in the know" put names down at birth to obtain a place - your then get a self- fulfilling prophesy whereby people do not try because they believe they will not get in.
We have a dearth of leaders in both Scouts and Guides and many are run just by one or 2, which is not really enough, and many are people who run more than one unit, which can be insufficient number to offer the full range of experience.

The common reasons are "too busy", but if more people could just take parts of the time, more units would thrive (bookkeeping, record keeping, badge sorting, waiting list management can all be done in own time; shopping, craft prep can be less than regular activities; outing organisation or fundraising can be a one off, and perhaps once a term support, or offering your own skills for an activity once every couple of years)

I have just retired after 36 years of Rainbow Guides - started for my own daughter. It has taken me all of 6 years to find replacements, who are both former Rainbows of my unit, bringing their own daughters.
The camaraderie, training and skill development are great for leaders (and for the CV), but parents and the recently retired make great leaders too.

My parents were very much working class, today they'd be in barely above minimum wage jobs if they were still doing similar jobs. They both lived for their scout volunteer commitments.
We were very definitely the poor people in the scout and guide troops, looking back my parents were providing this 'club' equivalent to children of teachers, lawyers, police, doctors etc.

People coming from all over other areas to join your Scout Group isn't right

Its fair though if, as the OP said, there are no other scout groups in a 20 mile radius.

I'd say there needs to be another night started and prioritise children if their parents are willing to step up and be leaders or weekly helpers

Easier said than done though. Most groups struggle to recruit enough leaders to run the sections they already have - even with the offer of prioritising children if their parents step up - where are they going to find the extra volunteers they need to open a second night?

Easier said than done though. Most groups struggle to recruit enough leaders to run the sections they already have - even with the offer of prioritising children if their parents step up - where are they going to find the extra volunteers they need to open a second night?

I meant parents (or grandparents or older siblings) to step up and be leaders and others weekly parent helpers. If there is a long waiting list then surely some should be willing?

Ours managed to open a second beaver unit and also squirrels in the last five years, now two groups each of scouts, cubs and beavers and one squirrels, it can be done.

@Pipistrellus "I meant parents (or grandparents or older siblings) to step up and be leaders and others weekly parent helpers. If there is a long waiting list then surely some should be willing?"

<hollow laugh> Parents at ours used to sit in their cars and watch as we carried the boats to the boat house. Even after emails begging for help.

Ours has managed to start a new beavers night and squirrels section in recent years so there are parents out there that are willing. It sounds like you have lazy disinterested ones in your group. I think prioritising children with willing parents is the way to go.

Get involved and volunteer I did to ensure my x 3 children experienced some wonderful chances to partake in a string of activities. I was a full time working mother and managed it. I might add I was behind the scene volunteer doing hall/camp hire and website work. I would have loved to have been a leader but couldn't guarantee to attend week in week out plus all the planning and prep. I will be forever grateful to my local scout group for what they gave my children.

We have an active unit with 150 odd kids and two groups at every stage. We have lots of leaders but have had to work very hard to say to joining parents you must join as leaders if we are to continue.
The camaraderie is amazing but it’s been a slog, but at least we have five leaders in our beavers alone and we only have to do a couple of sessions each term. (No idea about the other groups though.)
The parents who have joined as leaders are all from mostly affluent backgrounds and as much as we want to be inclusive - we need to prioritise kids of people who will lead.
There are lots of local units around here so lots of choice thankfully.

It is in the area we relocated to. We moved into quite a deprived area and tried to transfer DD into Rainbows - the only units were much further away in better off neighbourhoods!

Some of it is knowledge/awareness - I’d been a volunteer with Guides for years so knew I wanted her to do it so got her onto a waiting list as a baby. When I mentioned it to other parents at the play area after school not many had heard of Rainbows (particularly those from another country), had no idea what was involved or lacked the ability/time to get them to meetings. A 4.30pm start somewhere a drive away without public transport excludes a lot.

And more MC type jobs are more likely to offer employer-supported volunteering which helps people attend training, go to camp without using annual leave. It’s one of the reasons I stopped volunteering as I just couldn’t keep up with what the other Guiders did as they had a lot of employer support for preparation and events. Especially for younger age groups the meetings start early which makes it very difficult to fit around many jobs. Someone in insecure shift or zero wage work isn’t going to have employer support for volunteering either.

The Brownies were now at runs during university term time as several of the leaders are students. But that also means a more MC/university-focussed area.

Uniform is expensive, especially if the unit specifies they need all of it including trousers/leggings and hat. One unit we were with had a thriving secondhand thing going on where you could pick up the next size cheaply (or probably free if necessary) BUT that depended on the leader's good relationship with the church as she had cupboards in the hall to keep it in and her free time to sort into sizes, find what someone had asked for etc.

Our current unit has barely any storage space in the church hall and doesn't offer any secondhand uniform. But they do only ask them to have the hoodie or the t shirt.

@Pipistrellus "It sounds like you have lazy disinterested ones in your group. I think prioritising children with willing parents is the way to go."

Well, it is if you don't think Scouting is about more than giving privileged children more privilege......

I meant parents (or grandparents or older siblings) to step up and be leaders and others weekly parent helpers. If there is a long waiting list then surely some should be willing?

I understood what you meant - but, at least in my area, recruiting parents is very difficult. We regularly offer for children to skip the waiting list inn return for weekly help, but very few take up the offer.

Ours managed to open a second beaver unit and also squirrels in the last five years, now two groups each of scouts, cubs and beavers and one squirrels, it can be done

I’m not saying it can’t, but it’s rarely as easy as ‘just ask parents to step up*. It generally takes either a surplus of current leaders (rare) or a big recruitment drive. And given how stretched for leaders many groups are, current leaders may not have to time, energy , or resources to do this.

The average scout volunteer, according to the Scout Association, stays an average of 2 years. So recruitment is a constant battle. I’m lucky with my cub pack to have enough leaders at the moment, but we’re losing one soon when his child moves on to scouts. And the group as a whole lacks enough leaders. We certainly would struggle to open another section.

Uniform is expensive, especially if the unit specifies they need all of it including trousers/leggings and hat

Most scout groups will only specify a need to buy the top - so jumper or shirt. Parents might be asked to pay for the necker too, although many groups include this in their subs. Anything else, IMO, should be an optional extra.

However, I agree with you if you are talking about Rainbows or Brownies though. We had to buy top, hoodie and leggings when my DD joined rainbows, and it wasn’t cheap!

To put it into context the stats from our Scout group

Adult leaders... 5
Occasional helpers... 2
Other non leader adults regularly involved behind the scenes.. 4
Adults who will help when asked but no DBS... 4 or 5
Scouts... 22
Cubs... 23
Beavers 24

(All sections counted as Full due to section planning).

We are stretched too thin. We are dreading the expectation of opening Squirrels section.

Why open a squirrel unit if you don't want to?

We aren't keen on the idea because it's so hard to get leaders for Beavers as it is.

If you are getting pressure from District just tell them to sling it. They can't make you.

They can't make us at the moment. That might change on a couple of years.

District didn't even have the courtesy to tell us another local group was closing and they were directing the kids to us... we found out out when we had a multitude of transfer requests... which we couldn't fulfill.

We cover 5 primary schools and one secondary now.

*Why open a squirrel unit if you don't want to?

We aren't keen on the idea because it's so hard to get leaders for Beavers as it is.

If you are getting pressure from District just tell them to sling it. They can't make you*

This. I really wouldn’t worry about opening a Squirrel section if you can’t/don’t want to. We’re certainly not going to in our group!