Scouts is (or always was!) an incredibly middle class activity

[Greatballzoffire]

Just that. Our local one is full of very wealthy families, waiting list are years long & the children that could probably do with & afford scouts can't get in the door.
I always associated scouts as an inexpensive activity that all children can access. Ours seem to be predominantly full of middle class families who travel from other areas to our scout unit.

And the leaders left get burn out and quit so the group folds and no one gets to do anything any more and all future opportunities are gone too.

All because parents can't be arsed to even get out their cars and help.

It's that sole destroying stuff that kills off leaders.

If you are too lazy to even get out your car when you are there, then I'm sorry but I don't give two shits about what class a kid is. It's inexcusable. Sitting in your car expecting others to do all the work for you is the very height of privilege and entitlement.

I would be sending some really shitty emails out about it and spelling it out that you were quite happy to let the group go under if people don't step up. Maybe cancel a session or two because of a 'lack of leaders'.

Scouting is all about getting involved. It has to be.

It is impossible to be sustainable if families don't get involved. Not with the amount of paperwork and risk assessing as well as planning and running nights.

Nobody has to buy uniform at our Scouts. And people who do buy it are strongly asked to donate it when their kids outgrow or leave.

@RedToothBrush "If you are too lazy to even get out your car when you are there, then I'm sorry but I don't give two shits about what class a kid is."

Me neither. I still occasionally see those parents in the supermarket and want to ram them with my trolley! 🤣 I remember one who actually emailed to complain about the session ending late......

I'm a single parent, low income. My children are not privileged.

I disagree. It’s an extremely inexpensive hobby compared to many. My DC went before covid for a year or so and I’m almost certain it was about £10 a month for them to attend and camps were £20 or something. The most expensive part was the uniform.

Lots of other extracurricular clubs cost a fortune like swimming, dance etc.

@Pipistrellus "I'm a single parent, low income. My children are not privileged."

Privilege is not just about income.

Well back to the title we are not middle class. Our family has experienced disadvantage. Few families are genuinely unable to help out in any way.

Dc's scout group is mixed, it is very affordable including most camps. I have taken other scouts to camps if travel an issue and also donate outgrown camping gear and uniform ( not alone with this) so there is always a free supply available. What is needed is parents willing to take them when they are small. I have toyed with the idea of setting up a local group to take kids to and fro scouts and sourcing uniform / fees. I think it would be an excellent thing for some children with positive outcomes at minimal expenditure. ( I am not someone who volunteers for anything really but I have seen what a positive impact scouts has had for my dc who have had a tricky start in live, exposed to domestic abuse, paternal criminality, alcohol and drug use leading to prison and death)

I have to say that there's a issue over the working class v middle class thing to a degree on this too.

Some of the people struggling financially the most aren't necessarily those of a lower social class or from working class families.

We know that a bunch of middle class families locally are more stretched in terms of disposable income because they've mortgaged themselves to the hilts and then been stuffed by the interest rate rise. They haven't been eligible for financial benefits because they earn too much but can't drop their commitments either. Whereas some of the more working class families have been hit hard but actually come out with more disposable income. And this is especially true for middle class families with three or more kids compared to working class families with one kid.

It doesn't necessarily follow that your class automatically means you have more money for extra activities these days. That's actually a contributing factor as to why some people want benefits cut because they see people on low income ls and benefits financially more secure than themselves who work full time and pay for child care.

No they still can't make you.

It's a volunteer organisation. They can pressure you but the word 'no' remains no.

They can't make us at the moment. That might change on a couple of years

I doubt they'll ever be able to make you open a Squirrel Drey. If District puts too much pressure on all ready over stretched groups, they'll lose the volunteers that they already have. I know our lovely GSL would walk if they put that sort of pressure on her. Luckily our DC is very supportive of his groups, and listens to what the leaders need.

People do put unreasonable demands on volunteers and sometimes I think we need to remind them - and ourselves - that we are volunteers and that we are entitled to set boundaries.
Not Scouting, but I'm a volunteer at a couple of Sports Clubs and I'm getting much better at saying no in my old age. I do care and I put a lot of time and energy into my volunteering but I won't be emotionally blackmailed into doing things that risk my own wellbeing anymore.

Very good point

Around my way our kids jumped to the front of a very long queue because my Husband volunteered to be a scout leader, which guarentees your child a place. We still had to pay £10 a month per child, but they have a lot of fun, and as we home ed our kids, we wanted them to be part of lots of groups to see other kids. Btw we live nr Chequers and it was pretty Tory-esque, now thanks to HS2 fudging up so much of the local landscape, old cottages and messing people about, not so much!

What often happens in these situations is that people sail in and say ‘they’ should open up another troop. But who is ‘they’? It is a voluntary organisation after all.

I do also think there may be a case for taking a critical look at some of these voluntary organisations and considering whether it could be useful to contract in some paid help - perhaps on the administrative side? It would take a little while to train someone but then they’ll be worth their weight in gold. Or hiring a self-employed playworker once a week to be permanently part of the ratios?

I looked it up and Scout troops are deemed to be independent charities (although they don’t have to register with the Charity Commission unless they have income/property above a certain level). So perhaps there is a bit more freedom than might be thought possible?

Unfortunately I think the voluntary model has been in a slow decline since two incomes became essential to most households. The ever increasing documentation requirements (quite rightly so around activities involving children) have also been a factor putting off many volunteers. Scouts and Guides struggle to get people. PTAs struggle to get people. Community carnivals and fairs struggle to get organisers. Small charities struggle to get trustees. NCVO has reported an overall decline in volunteers, especially post covid.

The other thing that occurs to me is that many Scout huts and village halls were built in the post war period. Surely this building stock will need replacing in due course?

I am not sure what the solution is to either the volunteer or the building issue but suspect that costs to participants might need to rise sooner or later.

Re volunteer availability and more families needing two incomes - a lot of the Guide/Scout leaders when I was growing up were school teachers. They were used to children and enjoyed working with them, finished work early and had access to a photocopier, which seemed to be the essential criteria then!

Now all my teacher friends seem to work an incredible number of hours, certainly don't finish work halfway through the afternoon and spend their weekends planning and marking. They're just not available in the same way.

One of our leaders is a secondary school leaders. He works particularly long hours as it is a prestigious grammar school but still finds time to attend two different section meetings a week. He brings his lesson planning to camp and does it when the kids go to bed. We have other leaders that work 50hr weeks, shift work, all kinds of things. As someone else has said, leaders are normally people that are already extremely busy people

Absolutely correct that there are barriers to kids doing brownies/scouts/woodcraft folk type activities.

My 3dc can't do any of these. I'm a lone parent (widow so no DH to help), work full time and commute. I can't volunteer to run a session, so no place for my kids.

The lack of curiosity or understanding in some posts on here about why not everyone can volunteer - and blaming "laziness" - is hurtful and comes across as self-righteous.

I'd gladly contribute financially for someone to run sessions. Why on earth should kids be excluded because of their parent(s)' circumstances?

I volunteer as 'the badge lady'. I order required badges and pop them into envelopes. I don't attend the meeting. Scouting has lots of admin roles - it's not just about volunteering to run a meeting.

Right so where does the money come from for paid help? And who are these mythical people who can put in these hours? Are they going to be people who have other jobs? Or teenagers who have very little skills to offer?

And as you point out, how do you fund that on top of new building stock? Just at the time when scouting UK got stuffed by last year's jamboree and will be forced to sell off assets? (Which won't be local buildings because they are owned by local groups not scouting UK).

And at the same time this whole conversation is about keeping it accessable to those struggling financially the most... Which if you add in the costs of hiring an employee (wages and NI etc) just makes it more expensive.

Your post is incoherent in its consistency.

Our group successfully raised money for a new building. It involved a lot of fundraising, imagination and making the most of grants and asking businesses for donations. So it's doable. The building was financially viable - then COVID hit and it caused issues. Then the cost of heating the building hit and lots of groups using the building folded because people are struggling to avoid to go to other activities groups. It has to be run like a business in it's own right which isn't easy - it can't afford to support a paid employee. That's in addition to Scouting. So in some respects there's a lot to be said for groups to hire third party buildings so they don't have that additional work.

In terms of leaders and how many hours a week they work, I know several leaders who do / did 60 hours a week plus and still did Scouts AND something else. So I think that's a point that doesn't really stand up either. It's definitely down to mindset not the amount of time people have.

I really do not think there is an alternative model that allows scouting to remain the characteristic of being cheap. It can't carry on without volunteers.

It's been said multiple times that there are other volunteering roles which are not running a session.

Not at all in my experience

It was running a session or no place in my area - maybe it varies in different areas.

Well did you plead your case with hardship due to circumstances?

Yes it's down to individual groups but they will generally be flexible if you do offer something.

@RedToothBrush
Your tone is a little aggressive. To refer to my post as ‘incoherent’ (meaning incomprehensible or unclear) is patently untrue as it is written very clearly and in comprehensible English. You simply didn’t agree with it.

Anyway, if you look again at my second paragraph you will see that I never used or implied the word ‘employee’. I said ‘contract in’ and ‘self employed’. Small pre-schools and playgroups (who also struggle for both money and volunteers!) sometimes use paid administrative support in this way - I know people who have done this work while being largely a SAHM.

I grew up in Girl Guiding so I am on your team, but just wonder if an alternative to today’s purely volunteer-led model might need to emerge. Society has changed a lot since the movements were first established so change is surely inevitable.

Or will people still be complaining about Scouting, Guiding and the lack of volunteers and spaces for their children in 2050?