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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is a case of sour grapes?

402 replies

Diaria · 14/12/2023 04:40

Woman believes that childless women pick up the slack for working Mums….

Reading this, she sounds bitter, sour and traumatised by her prior fertility battle and failed relationship.

She worked in retail; it is of course mental and draining around Christmas time.

Essentially, the argument is that childless women are forgotten and mothers get all these perks along the way like total exhaustion but I digress…

She even goes so far as to complain about mothers having a paid maternity leave (often a pittance) and complains about her having to save £500 a month and not being given a free holiday…… maternity isn’t hopping around Thailand and most mothers couldn’t afford to save £500 a month!!

Anyway, I have no patience for this… but discuss.

I quit because I can't bear picking up the slack for working mums

https://mol.im/a/12860533

I quit because I can't bear picking up the slack for working mums

Having often felt obliged to fill in for mums who called in sick, and having worked every Boxing Day for 20 years, Samantha Walsh, 47, handed in her notice at the end of October and has no regrets.

https://mol.im/a/12860533

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
cannotdoitanymore · 14/12/2023 09:30

TheaBrandt · 14/12/2023 06:57

Well the reason the working mothers have to push back at work is because the burden of parenting falls on them. So the real winners are the fathers and their employers who get to have children but merrily continue with their careers unaffected. They are the villains of this piece but in our misogynistic society we are encouraged to criticise the mothers 🙄🙄🙄

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

The most sensible comment on the entire thread.

jolies1 · 14/12/2023 09:30

Lifeasiknowitisout · 14/12/2023 06:15

This is exactly it.

The women in the article was management.

As an aside I assume she was store management. I would have thought regardless of who has kids and not she would have had to work Boxing Day anyway. Lots of store managers do. I suspect even if her staff were all people without kids, she would have had to be there. Nature of the job.

But that wouldn’t promote her business idea, I guess.

Show quote history

Absolutely! 15 years in retail management. Firstly unless you’re in a head office role hardly any retailers pay more than SSP. It’s not much of a “hand out.”

Managers always had to pick up shifts at Christmas whether they had kids or not, a good manager would plan rotas well in advance to give people warning of their working pattern and make sure everyone had a couple of days off. I used to work Boxing Day but take my extra days off at new year for a longer break.

Most retailers are staffed with part timers as the businesses can’t afford for everyone to be full time (except managers). The majority of people applying for part time jobs are mums or students. The mums were 9/10 more reliable than the students as they needed the money and had a better work ethic. If they didn’t have kids they’d be working full time for more money in a better industry!

margotrose · 14/12/2023 09:30

But that’s not parents. It’s not working mums. It’s some parents who happen to be rude.

But it's only ever parents who seem to feel entitled enough to demand certain days off in that way.

So yes, it is parents. Maybe not all of them, but a significant minority.

Teder · 14/12/2023 09:30

CollagenQueen · 14/12/2023 08:46

If this woman needs medical attention, she will call a doctor

If this woman gets burgled, she will call a police officer

If this woman's house is on fire, she will call for firemen

When she's old and needs carers, she will have them in attendance

Me, and many women, grew the doctors, policemen, firemen and carers, inside of our bodies. And for the privilege, it personally cost us hundreds of thousands of pounds in lost wages, lost pensions, and the actual expense it took to raise them, and sometimes we have medical issues due to traumatic pregnancies and births (not to mention the saggy tummy and tits, to boot).

You're welcome!

Omg please let this be sarcasm.

Sauerkrautsandwich · 14/12/2023 09:34

*Me, and many women, grew the doctors, policemen, firemen and carers, inside of our bodies. And for the privilege, it personally cost us hundreds of thousands of pounds in lost wages, lost pensions, and the actual expense it took to raise them, and sometimes we have medical issues due to traumatic pregnancies and births (not to mention the saggy tummy and tits, to boot).

You're welcome!*

Many also grew genocidal maniacs, school shotters, serial rapists and killers.

Thanks?

TheGoogleMum · 14/12/2023 09:34

Covering for employees on maternity leave isn't the fault of the mother on mat leave, its a fault of the employer for not arranging adequate cover

jolies1 · 14/12/2023 09:34

margotrose · 14/12/2023 09:30

But that’s not parents. It’s not working mums. It’s some parents who happen to be rude.

But it's only ever parents who seem to feel entitled enough to demand certain days off in that way.

So yes, it is parents. Maybe not all of them, but a significant minority.

Having worked in the same industry as this woman, a good manager manages their team and expectations it to be fair.

The good, organised ones I knew planned festive rotas in September. They asked everyone for their preferences and key days they needed. They set expectations early - everyone will need to work some shifts over Christmas. Eg you can have either Xmas Eve or Boxing Day off. There would always be a policy to support and I would tell people at interview stage that the job involved working weekends and over Christmas including Boxing Day so there would be no get out.

Never had much of an issue, most mums wanted Xmas eve off while those of us without kids were happy to work it and have Boxing Day off. Anyone who did have an issue was firmly reminded of the process and had the option to look for work elsewhere if they weren’t willing.

chiwowowa · 14/12/2023 09:36

Woman wants to have a crack at being a features writer.
Paper says, 'cool! Write us an article that's negative about other women, negative about your kids or negative about other women's kids.
Woman says, 'cool! Kerching!'
Paper says, 'cool! Kerching!'
Ad nauseum.

Lifeasiknowitisout · 14/12/2023 09:37

Tinkerbyebye · 14/12/2023 09:02

She is simply telling her truth, in the way you op tell yours with your wish for wanting days off, or spending time with adults

but as someone who was a manager for 25 years I can tell you there is an expectation from most, not all, working mums that they should get first pick of school holidays, that it is always mum who is off with the kids, that they can’t do early or late shift, or have any form of inconvenience and they played the I have children card all the time completely and often deliberately forgetting that childless women also have family and responsibilities

the writer is correct about parental leave, you need to take them to a hospital appointment, you take holiday whereas mums get to take kids with no requirement to do this

you sound like you have kids, hopefully this is a wake up call to you and others about how you treat colleagues with your I have children mantra

You are both wrong about parental leave.

Parental leave is a legal entitlement and needs to be taken in blocks of a week. Prearranged and agreed by your employer. Unless your child is disabled. Then you can days.

Unless you have a disabled child you aren’t using parental leave to take your kids to the hospital appointment.

Theres dependency leave, which could be any sort of dependent. The authors company decided an elder relative not living with you wasn’t a dependent. He would ah w been anywhere I worked.

An employer not letting you take a few hours for a hospital appointment is a shit employer.

again, all issues with the employer.

and I can’t believe I’m 25 years of managing people you never came across people who had no children but also had a sense of entitlement and an expectation. They would come first. Never? People without kids just never try and get their own way?

Thats unlikely and suggests it just stood out more when it was parents.

MustafaFagg · 14/12/2023 09:38

This problem begins with Maternity leave where the burden of absent mothers and mothers to be is not a responsibility solely borne by society ie all taxpayers. Instead it is also a burden on , in most cases, a small community called a company which in order to be successful will inevitably pass the labour shortfall on to the other employees. This mindset then extends to discretionary leave connected to parental responsibilities.................the answer ? comprehensive state funded childcare and therefore some fairly serious tax increases.

Everyone up for that ?

brunettemic · 14/12/2023 09:39

Applying the question specifically to the work place it’s not unreasonable to say people without kids sometimes pick up the slack for those without. If I think to the team that worked for me in my last job about half of them had kids. I’m super flexible as a manager but it’s not unfair to say those with kids usually need more flexibility for things and others then pick up some more as a result. If someone goes part time after kids then usually that work will get redistributed is another example.

I’m not saying some of the mindless drivel in the article is true but there’s some elements of it.

willWillSmithsmith · 14/12/2023 09:42

GrumpyPanda · 14/12/2023 08:52

And your point is....?

So basically you're confirming the gist of the article while throwing in an extra "sucks to be you, Hon." You sound delightful.

Show quote history

It’s very unfortunate for her that children didn’t happen for her when she wanted it to (as opposed to being voluntarily child free) but she most likely would have used the perk of taking leave to be with any children. I don’t see what is so undelightful about saying that.🤷‍♀️

cezannesapple · 14/12/2023 09:42

Diaria · 14/12/2023 04:57

Maybe it is a case of the grass is always greener?

I find myself hugely envious of women in her position.

  • relative freedom to do what you want whenever you want
  • time and energy to build career
  • no loss of pension
  • days off are actual days off
  • spending time with adults that you actually want to
  • hobbies
  • enormous amount of disposable income

Very often it is women who end up being the main care giver for a child and children are important for the future of society… so should they not be cared for and nurtured by their parents because a 50yo wants to scoff chocs on the sofa for hours on end or whatever else she thinks mothers do that we don’t actually do. 🤷‍♀️

I don’t know why you are having a swipe at her. She desperately wanted children and her marriage broke up because she couldn’t. She says she’s often covering for parents who are off so she’s not swanning around enjoy her days off as she is exhausted. She doesn’t have the pleasure of having children, perhaps she is lonely and wants to spend time with her parents before they die. It’s all not roses you know when you don’t have kids, it can be a lonely place. Yes, she is complaining about working long hours and as management you do get all the responsibility and she has had enough. However, it is true that women without children are expected to pick up slack. As she says, she has family too, not kids but wider family and there are always women on here saying they have been asked to give up their days off so parents can spend time with their kids over Christmas. She’s had enough, that’s all.

ConstantRain · 14/12/2023 09:45

I was happy to pick up the slack when I was young and childless. I had kids later in life and would often work extra hrs and over Xmas. Generally, it was a bit of laugh and I could save my holidays for my travels in September when everything is so cheap.
I won't mind when my dc are older either.

Boredatthemoment · 14/12/2023 09:50

I don’t think it’s sour grapes. I am a mother but my DD is an adult now. My DP died 3 years ago. I am now seen as an old single woman in my work team and therefore available to do whatever they want and when. In the noughties when my daughter was small I couldn’t take time off when I wanted either. I wasn’t given special treatment for Christmas but now those with children are - this may have coincided with my boss becoming a mother later in life. Because I have no one but my dog I have to work between Christmas and New Year.

KimberleyClark · 14/12/2023 09:51

Me, and many women, grew the doctors, policemen, firemen and carers, inside of our bodies. And for the privilege, it personally cost us hundreds of thousands of pounds in lost wages, lost pensions, and the actual expense it took to raise them, and sometimes we have medical issues due to traumatic pregnancies and births (not to mention the saggy tummy and tits, to boot).

You're welcome!

That should me “I, and many women…..”

You’re welcome!

*I don’t normally bother to comment on spelling/grammar mistakes but in this instance the tone of your post was so sanctimonious that I couldn’t resist.

LaurieStrode · 14/12/2023 09:52

Sauerkrautsandwich · 14/12/2023 09:34

*Me, and many women, grew the doctors, policemen, firemen and carers, inside of our bodies. And for the privilege, it personally cost us hundreds of thousands of pounds in lost wages, lost pensions, and the actual expense it took to raise them, and sometimes we have medical issues due to traumatic pregnancies and births (not to mention the saggy tummy and tits, to boot).

You're welcome!*

Many also grew genocidal maniacs, school shotters, serial rapists and killers.

Thanks?

Exactly. Are parents prepared to be held legally and financially accountable for adverse outcomes?

Maybe we should dock their pensions or charge parents a higher tax rate if they produce an abuser, addict, deadbeat parent, criminal, non-net-contributor, etc.

If they're so eager for thanks for halfway decent outcomes they should accept the penalties for the all too frequent shitty, anti-social outcomes.

CharlotteRumpling · 14/12/2023 09:52

Well neither of mine are going to be doctors or scientists or firemen or nurses, so no one needs to thank me. Taxpaying citizens perhaps.

iamwhatiam23 · 14/12/2023 09:54

I am a mum and I completely agree with her!

IncompleteSenten · 14/12/2023 09:57

Women should not be blaming one another for what is actually a failure in management on the part of the employer.

iamwhatiam23 · 14/12/2023 10:01

In the industry i work in there are certain places/jobs all of us hate going to/doing. You can absolutely guarantee that someone will call in sick if they get rostered on these jobs and they will be using the kids as an excuse! Also working Christmas day, their children will suddenly develop an illness! I agree that its the employers fault for not dealing with these issues but it definitely breeds resentment among other staff!

willWillSmithsmith · 14/12/2023 10:02

My brother works in retail. He’s also a single dad and he’s also working on Boxing Day. It’s probably a retail issue more than anything else. Other industries wind down around Christmas, I’ve worked in many an almost empty office at that time but for retail, especially Boxing Day, it’s peak busy time.

GreenRedRue · 14/12/2023 10:09

Diaria · 14/12/2023 04:57

Maybe it is a case of the grass is always greener?

I find myself hugely envious of women in her position.

  • relative freedom to do what you want whenever you want
  • time and energy to build career
  • no loss of pension
  • days off are actual days off
  • spending time with adults that you actually want to
  • hobbies
  • enormous amount of disposable income

Very often it is women who end up being the main care giver for a child and children are important for the future of society… so should they not be cared for and nurtured by their parents because a 50yo wants to scoff chocs on the sofa for hours on end or whatever else she thinks mothers do that we don’t actually do. 🤷‍♀️

Why on earth do you think every childfree person has huge disposable income and freedom?!

You sound VERY ignorant.

YABU.

WestwardHo1 · 14/12/2023 10:10

I think she has some valid points but is conflating her issues. One of those points is this endless assumption that childless/free women don't have "a family", whereas as she says they probably have parents, siblings, nieces, nephews. They deserve to spend time with them. But retail is shit and customers can be vile whether you're a parent or a non parent.

However, if anyone thinks that this woman approached the DM saying "hey I've got a great idea for a story" and this is all her own words, they don't know how that rag operates. This will have been edited to within an inch of its life to fit an agenda. And that agenda is dividing women and turning them against one another.

Teder · 14/12/2023 10:10

CharlotteRumpling · 14/12/2023 09:52

Well neither of mine are going to be doctors or scientists or firemen or nurses, so no one needs to thank me. Taxpaying citizens perhaps.

Even if they’re not able to be taxpaying citizens, they’re still very worthy members of society. I’m sure you’ll raise them well enough not to think they deserve thanks (if they decide to have children).