One member of the family ALWAYS causing problems

[BellesJar]

I'm in need of a bit of practical advice. I have a relative who is very, very frequently causing huge and upsetting drama with everyone (usually different people at different times, but no one is immune). Let's call her Jane...

I love Jane but it's got to the point I dread speaking to, seeing her or even hearing about her. Jane frequently disowns us and then forgets about a month later. One member of the family is permanently estranged from Jane. Now none of us are perfect but she causes so much upset. If anyone ever dares challenge Jane she will fly off the handle and throw the most painful things she can think of back in your face.

Jane told us she got engaged less than a week ago. We were all very happy and obviously said congratulations and asked her to send us the pictures etc. She is visiting us for a day in the Christmas period along with the rest of the family and I had planned to get them an extra bottle of champagne etc, make a little celebration of it. Jane's just messaged us all to say she's really sad that no one even got her a card. I haven't responded but experience tells me this will escalate unless we all apologise.

Do I leave it, apologise or tell her what I really think?

Have never sent anyone an engagement card in my life, didn't even know it was a thing.

It could be OP... shes probably in the victim mentality, probably needs counselling. Luckily, im not a victim but a survivor and i live my life that way. If she was scapegoated i feel for her but there's a time you have to break out of that. She might need a compassionate conversation.. without blame. If she still is difficult.. you cant do any other ♥️

I have never sent an engagement card.

Wedding, yes, birth of child, yes, good luck in new home…

But no one in my family does formal ‘engagement’. It is ‘planning to get married’ once some actual planning is underway. This ‘engaged to be married ‘ seems so old fashioned, and can often go on for years before any actual plans are made.

The Jane in DHs family is absolutely the family scapegoat as was I in mine so I am completely sympathetic to her about that.

But she does not allow any boundaries in friendship, work, family, she has none of her own, she is ill and exhausted the whole time and in a permanent state of overwhelm and also she is incredibly demanding and has incredibly high expectations constantly looking for validation and signs of love. Personally I feel completely overwhelmed and suffocated by her behaviour.

I give the whole of Jane’s family a wide berth now except for DH because they caused Jane’s issues It was a narcissistic (FIL) and codependent (MIL) and was an abusive upbringing. DH holds them at massive arms length but Jane will not address the reality of her family for her and put in some of the boundaries she needs for her own well being because they seriously, seriously damage her, so instead she vents non stop. We are completely exhausted by her and the venting triggers me about my own similar experiences but I agree a lot of Jane’s are likely to be family scapegoats.

"she is incredibly demanding and has incredibly high expectations constantly looking for validation and signs of love. Personally I feel completely overwhelmed and suffocated by her behaviour."

This rings true except I would also add that my Jane has very low expectations/ standards of herself. I feel if Jane says jump we must respond "how high?"

I think it used to be more of a thing years ago but I've never bothered sending one.

I've sent a fair few engagement cards and had nights out with my friends when they have announced an engagement. It seemed to be a cause for celebration. I am older though, maybe it's less of a thing now. So much has changed just in the last 20 years, I find.

Do NOT be a bridesmaid, or maid of honour, or any part of wedding planning.

No matter how much she puts on other people, that's their choice to accept that pressure and stress, they know it'll be a nightmare and said yes.

You can't change her, you can only change how you interact with her.

Oh, this is a difficult one.

She probably feeds off drama and that is why she loves causing so much of it. She craves your reaction and perhaps uses it to validate herself.

If that’s the case, the best thing to do is not react. If you sense she’s stirring up her drama, just ignore her. Chances are, she’ll escalate to force a reaction but you need to be firm and not give her one.

Eventually she may grow bored once she realises that she’s not getting what she wants. She’ll move on to some other poor soul then.

Honestly with people like that, I’d say go as low contact as possible. She’s your sister yes but that isn’t a reason to keep her in your life when all she’s doing is bringing you all down.

She’s doing it because she gets away with it. She knows she can act like this and then swan in when the fancy takes her and no one will say or do boo about it.

My cousin is a 'Jane'. Spoiled rotten by both parents after they divorced and then got into a habit of having asthma attacks when anything happened which was not to her liking. Cant stand if someone has attention for any reason - even made my mothers death all about her. I have no contact with her any more and its bliss. When I did have to have contact (mum would have been upset if I cut her off) I kept it very short, and focused - the only way to manage drama is not to join in. So no apologizing, no solving the problems she comes up with, just moving on.

Your post resonates, because i, too am Jane. I'm self aware enough now to recognise that it's not my problem and that there isn't wrong with me as such; I just have an awful family who through exclusion and smear tactics have built the narrative that I am the trouble maker and have been banished from the family. It's pure scapegoating led by the two narcissistic women in the group who have manipulated the others to follow suit and believe all lies and gossip. What hurts is that not one person has gone against them and made a stand for me, despite knowing the truth and accepting privately that I've been played the shitty hand. I guess self preservation and fear of being cast out has kept their mouths shut. When I read posts like this, it always strikes me - what's the other side of the story? Because things are rarely black and white.

Come on now. You don't love Jane. nobody does. You know that she's a PITA.

Just ignore her. that's always the best action.

My sister is like this - unfortunately I think she has HFA which was quite oppositional in its expression, so think screaming nightmare as a child, and explosive vindictive lamp-throwing teen. I don’t think it’s entirely her fault tbh, my parents had no clue how to manage her, but she has ended up a really nasty abusive person - I think she has a personality disorder now.

I’m no contact, because it’s extremely stressful being around her as she’s so abusive. however sad her life is, it’s not my responsibility to fix it for her. If I were you I’d just go no or very low contact OP.

I say that as someone who has ASD/ADHD myself I’m pretty sure by the way - and at least one DC. She’s just not a pleasant person to be around.

😆

Is there any way you can preplan a good reason to not be a bridesmaid if she asks? She'll be angry at you but better to be angry once rather than the multiple opportunities she'll get once you inevitably fuck up her impossible bridal party demands.

My older sister is Jane too - less in your face and extreme than yours, OP, but very nasty, usually angry with me and, deep down, not very happy with herself. She used to say nasty things about my kids and husband, never supported me, and expected everyone to be there for her and her family. And she also took advantage financially whenever she could. I went NC just over 3 years ago when I couldn't take it anymore. It has been so liberating, in many unexpected areas of my life. I used to be like you, OP - deeply anxious and apprehensive whenever I was due to see her or there was a flare-up of anger from her. My one regret, however, is announcing that I was going NC - it felt right at the time and I needed it, but it has also caused a lot of issues, especially with our parents, who are very protective of her. So, currently trying to rebuild bridges very tentatively and with very strict boundaries. So, I would suggest keeping your distances and limiting contact as discreetly as possible.

@BellesJar

I would not pick Jane to be my friend, but we are close family.

See, this is where we differ. I don't have anything to do with those of my rellies that are like that, and if anyone asks why, I'll tell them.

Can't remember which PP said it but Jane will definitely have a different side to the story. Her version of events is rarely the same as mine.

I've not said anything yet, still torn between a neutral placating response and no response and nothing has happened yet. This is the first time it hasn't almost immediately escalated with text after text getting more and more extreme.

My god I couldn’t be dealing with that. I’d just start pulling back. Whatever you do, it’s never going to be good enough so why bother trying.

And if she decides to tell you all your faults, I’d be tempted to cut her off and tell her a few home truths of your own.

@Atethehalloweenchocs

mum would have been upset if I cut her off

Isn't this so often the root of the problem?

Oh I have a Jane too, mine has the added bonus of being a mean belligerent drunk. The only thing that fixed mine was to stop having anything to do with her.

My advice is to stop trying. You’ll never get it ‘right’ so there’s really no point in expending effort.

My aunt is a Jane who managed to make my DMs funeral all about her by asking us to change the date of the funeral (to a day that was more convenient for her so she could attend) and then still not come. No apologies from her (or her DC who did attend!)

She also send christmas cards with just her signature in them (like royalty? 🤴 🤣). Not addressing us as "jack, mr jack and young jack". Thank god I don't need to send one to her ever again now DM is no longer here.

We've got a Jane. We stopped entertaining her angry outbursts over things she'd made up in her head years ago. When she starts we just grey rock. She tries to play family members off against each other, so when she starts bitching about one of them we shut her down and don't give her any fuel for her fire. Her poor mom gets the worst of it. She's rewritten her whole childhood and made her mom out to be a really awful person which isn't true. Her siblings can't understand the spite that pours from her. She tells people she was kicked out at 15, lived on the streets, never took on holiday or cuddled as a child. It's lies, we all saw her being loved, we were there with her on holiday, she's always lived at home till she moved out in her mid twenties. She literally believes her own lies!.

It's a mental illness in my eyes. Nothing anyone does is right and nothings ever good enough. You could give her the earth and she'd be thoroughly upset that no one bothered to give her the moon too.

"She literally believes her own lies"

I got to the point where I would always try to get things (particularly plans) in writing so that when she lied I'd have it in black and white, but what's the point of a relationship like that??