One member of the family ALWAYS causing problems

[BellesJar]

I'm in need of a bit of practical advice. I have a relative who is very, very frequently causing huge and upsetting drama with everyone (usually different people at different times, but no one is immune). Let's call her Jane...

I love Jane but it's got to the point I dread speaking to, seeing her or even hearing about her. Jane frequently disowns us and then forgets about a month later. One member of the family is permanently estranged from Jane. Now none of us are perfect but she causes so much upset. If anyone ever dares challenge Jane she will fly off the handle and throw the most painful things she can think of back in your face.

Jane told us she got engaged less than a week ago. We were all very happy and obviously said congratulations and asked her to send us the pictures etc. She is visiting us for a day in the Christmas period along with the rest of the family and I had planned to get them an extra bottle of champagne etc, make a little celebration of it. Jane's just messaged us all to say she's really sad that no one even got her a card. I haven't responded but experience tells me this will escalate unless we all apologise.

Do I leave it, apologise or tell her what I really think?

I had a relative (aunt) like this. One's reaction to her happy news was never good enough.
We never said congratulations the right way.
We never complimented her enough.
We must have been jealous because we weren't doing as well as her.
We never engaged her in conversation as much as we did another person.
It became that after any interaction, after a few hours we would learn about what we did to slight her.

Anyway, it all came to a head when I got married during the pandemic and she didn't come to my wedding because of COVID (totally fine) but then she was so insulted that I didn't make my DH speak to her on the phone to introduce him or also I didn't thank her for her gift. (I had phone to say thank you for the gift... But it must have not been an appropriate way to thank her as she insists I have never thanked her)

She now no longer speaks to a bunch of us including 3 of her siblings who stood up for me at the time. It's been 3 years. Our lives are much happier and problem free. We wish we had drawn a line with her sooner tbh

I'd imagine Jane would be diagnosed with EUPD should she ever accept she has a problem and seek help ( which is doubtful)
I have a male Jane in my family of origin ( first diagnosed with EUPD now ASPD), I and the rest of the family, stay very low contact, we do not give him any personal up to date information ( such as little Jack having problems at school or anyone having relationship problems as he will store up the information to use later)
When we have to see him, funerals mostly now, we remain polite and friendly but detached ( if that makes sense) We just don't feed his craving for nastiness or drama. However it still feels heartbreaking as he's blood family, just dangerous and damaging to be around

that’s a shame you’re upset that no one has got you a card. Give it time, as it’s just happened & with everyone usually seeing each other at Xmas maybe they’ll be a small surprise.

"i've got it here, ready to give you when I see you. This has reminded me to look out my old engagement cards. Looking at them brings back so many memories..."

Yeah me too. Except my Jane is my only sister.
She loves drama but hates me more.
Couldn’t mentally take anymore. She is unfortunately toxic.

Oh dear what a time of it you have to come. If she is upset now waIt until the wedding planning starts. I would get your tin hat ready! Sounds like she will be the perfect bridezilla. Some people are never happy and thrive on drama. Unfortunately, it sounds as if Jayne is one.

I am so worried about the wedding planning, it actually makes me feel sick thinking about it.

My sister is Jane. Always unhappy with everyone else's behaviour or lack of behaviour but does exactly the same to everyone else, total hypocrite. Then hurls the most horrendous insults she can think of. We believe she has borderline personality disorder but she's decided it's all us and there's nothing wrong with her so can't really do much. I'm NC with her now.

Sounds more like narcissism!

And just to add as an example. Her 30th I got her a huge hamper I lovingly put together with all her favourite things and took her out for dinner. Less than two years later on my 30th she did NOTHING, no card at all. But I still had gifts unlike her because I have other people I have good relationships with, so I didn't mind at all and figured she was just struggling with money (I often lend her money and would rather she was sensible). She has spent every year since claiming no one got her anything and no one cares about her.

Once she offered to take my kids out (with my mum) for an ice cream. I thought it was unusual as she's never watched them, but gladly took her up on the offer. Anyway, they came back and she had randomly got some nibbles for us from the shop and was going on about how expensive everything was but it was fine because she liked treating us.

I happened to have £4 in loose change out on the side and she asked if she could have it to make up for the expense. For once, I said 'no' and honestly, her face changed in the moment. She started telling me that she should have it because she was unemployed (she had chosen to have a week off between her old job and her new job - I was actually unemployed because I am an unpaid carer). She refused to talk to me for most of the evening!

My Jane claims things like this that I know not to be true.

Has jane been scapegoated all her life? She may feel that shes ostracised. I was scapegoated by family, easy prey, i was the difficult one but i wasnt, its because i wouldn't fit in with their continuing dysfunction

I do think she had a different experience growing up than I did and it caused her huge damage. My parents found her difficult and me not.

Do you think this kind of dynamic affects all areas of life? Every job she's ever had everyone else has been horrible and targeted her according to Jane.

Oh god, she sounds just like my relative- ever the martyr. Not going to lie, I just don't care anymore.

@yogaoga it's possible she is but my mum 100% is so I've always leaned towards something else. We had a rubbish time of it growing up but myself and my other sister got through it ok and have made brilliant lives for ourselves which I'm so proud of us for. She has continued to live with my mum (rent free) meanwhile saying how awful my mum is to her but won't just move out. She's 34 and still won't hold down a job for more than a couple of months. Also calls me evil for not taking her to see my dad who's dying in a care home when I have three, soon to be four, children under 6 and she hasn't visited him in ten years. It's all too much for me so I try to give them space!

Why has no one sent a card? Are you all waiting till you see her or is it not something any of you would normally do?

It must do. So maybe not all her fault?

How did your parents treat her?

@Nanny0gg well, I don't know about the others but I was going to do card and champagne when they come up to visit soon (already arranged).

My Mum's the Jane and it's taken me years and years, but now I have a nice little grey rock routine going on which has (almost) neutralised her nonsense.

She has caused lasting damage and pain within the family which I don't have time to go into here.

This year, she has started nonsense about Xmas cards and I have saved her texts about them so she can't backpedal later and play the victim. She always gets extra difficult at this time of year. I read a narc article and this is something they are known for - because Xmas isn't about them and it's about connection which is something they can't seem to manage, so they try to ruin it for others.

It's difficult to answer how my parents treated her because my view is skewed by how I experienced living with her. I was certainly no angel to her as a teenager, but she was cruel to me growing up. She frequently ridiculed very sensitive things about me (e.g. medical problems that caused me great embarrassment), and would tell me to just kill myself etc.

From my perspective my parents were frequently exasperated with Jane but loved us both. They tried to make things 'fair', e.g. meticulous with how much they spent on each of us for birthdays etc but I actually think that they probably shouldn't have parented us exactly the same as we were so different.

I’d go for an unemotional repetitive response. So in this situation I’d say “Sorry you feel like that but I’d much rather give you a card in person so I was waiting until I saw you”. If she keeps pushing reply again saying the same thing but without the apology “as I said i’d rather give you a card in person”. On the third time don’t acknowledge it at all. You can use the same approach when you see her if she’s being difficult. After you’ve repeated yourself without the apology that might mean saying I’m just going to nip to the toilet and leaving the room. This approach works well with someone who craves the attention and the emotional response from someone because it denies them that which gives them less motivation to keep behaving that way.

Hi OP, I really feel for you when it's your sister. So hard to cut them off without lots of other repercussions. The Jane in our family is SIL and we would happily cut her out but MIL would never want to lose BIL and neither would DH to a certain extent.

Grey rock really is the only way to go as you can't beat them at their own game and they have no capability of being "cured" without extensive therapy that they would need to instigate themselves. To do grey rock, you only ever respond to them the minimal amount possible and never initiate a conversation or a meet-up etc. We now only see our Jane at a Christmas gathering (refuse for it to be on Christmas day itself) and at major family events - weddings/big birthdays for in-laws etc. I keep as far from her as possible, which is usually quite easy at busy events with lots of people, and only ever nod/smile/say/give bright but short answers. (To be honest she never asks me any questions about myself or my family so it's quite easy).

If she messages me I take a day or two to respond and try to keep it to a single emoji! But to be honest after a year of doing that she basically doesn't message me anymore. So for example in response to us announcing our pregnancy, she sent me a long ranty text about how our in-laws are useless grandparents and how she loved motherhood and would "always be there for me as a mother" (LOL, as if!) and I just replied "Thank you! 😊x" It cuts the drama dead in its tracks, which makes them lose interest.

Oh, and never, under any circumstances share any news about yourself or any of your own feelings. It will always be used against you somehow and make you feel crap!

In your case I would reply "Oh, was going to give you a card and gift when we saw you at Christmas! xx" and then not respond to anything further. If she raises it when she sees you, just look a bit confused/hurt and don't say anything.

I feel for you, it's really hard but once you start grey rocking, it gets easier and easier to do and they start to draw back from you as they're not getting their drama fix, so you also need to deal with them less and less often. Best of luck to you x

God I hate cards anyway. We have phones now!

Send a Sympathy card to her fiance.