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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Blazing row about Michael Jackson

644 replies

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 12:44

I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it but hear me out.

I was in a shop with DP last night and they were playing Michael Jackson music. I commented that I don't like hearing his music as I can't get past everything he did. Yes, I know he wasn't convicted but he openly admitted to sleeping in bed with random children, showering together and whatever else.

DP said "we have different opinions on that, he's a really good artist" to which I replied something about Rolph Harris being a good artist and Jimmy Saville being a good fund raiser.

DP then goes on to say he doesn't think MJ did anything untoward with the children and he thinks it's all innocent and because he had a "childlike mind" due to not having a proper childhood.

I said that was no excuse and plenty of people have bad or unusual childhoods and don't groom children.

He was getting defensive and talking about how he was found not guilty in court, to which I pointed out how few rape and sexual abuse cases even make it to court let alone conviction.

I asked whether he'd listened to anything the men on Leaving Neverland said before he formed his opinion that MJ wasn't guilty of anything. He said no, and refused to look it up.

It descended into a row and I was very hurt by some of the things he said, as I have a history of child sexual abuse and rape - which he knows all about.

I asked him whether he would have gladly left our DS in the company of someone like MJ unsupervised and he took a while to answer before saying "I don't know"

I said how that concerned me from a safeguarding perspective to which he took huge offence, started shouting and told me to return all of the presents i'd bought him as he doesnt want them anymore, the immature dickhead.

Now we're not talking.

Was I being unreasonable here?

OP posts:
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21
toomuchfaff · 07/12/2023 16:12

Everyone has an opinion, everyone is entitled to their opinion. No one aside from the dead guy and the people who were present know the actual truth. You just took it that one step too far; where a discussion about a high profile court case, you then developed into an opportunity for a personal attack.

VanityDiesHard · 07/12/2023 16:14

ButterCupPie · 07/12/2023 16:10

That's a kind of dumb remark. A snobby Dyson vac is not an artistic creation.

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What on earth is 'snobby' about a Dyson!? That remark is far stupider than the one you replied to.

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:17

ButterCupPie · 07/12/2023 16:09

THIS. In spades.

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I'd tell you what to do with your spade but I don't much fancy a ban 😊

OP posts:
BubbleBubbleBubbleBubblePop · 07/12/2023 16:19

BiscuitsandPuffin · 07/12/2023 13:26

I think YABU because you're trying to impose "rightthink" on your partner and came here looking for validation on that.

It's really controlling to expect people to have the same opinion as you to the point of expecting them to change their minds due to having talked about it with you and heard your opinion.

The topic is irrelevant.

Edited

This is exactly what I think, I just couldn't think how to word it.

hsapposhit · 07/12/2023 16:20

I've had enough of him and his bullshit. He's always thinking he knows everything and that he's right, when in actuality he's as thick as mince half of the time and doesn't bother to educate himself on anything he tries to talk about

You've got bigger problems than disagreeing on whether Michael Jackson was guilty or not.
Why are you with him if that's what you think about him?

Nowherenew · 07/12/2023 16:22

GoonDog · 07/12/2023 15:56

Why are you even wasting time on mumsnet OP?
If he's so awful and thick as mince, surely you should be getting your ducks in a row, and leaving him.

It sounds like OP doesn’t like being wrong.

Arguing with her DP didn’t work, so she’s hoping MNers will agree with her and prove her right.

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:22

Nowherenew · 07/12/2023 16:22

It sounds like OP doesn’t like being wrong.

Arguing with her DP didn’t work, so she’s hoping MNers will agree with her and prove her right.

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Why don't you borrow one of ButterCups spades 😂

OP posts:
Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:25

ArchetypalBusyMum · 07/12/2023 16:10

Whether mj is guilty of child sex abuse isn't the issue.
Lots of people take the view that the art and the artist are two separate things and I agree you can enjoy the art without approving of everything the artist has done. I can also see how horrible associations would spoil that same art for others.

I think your DH doesn't want to know if mj is guilty, so would rather not think about it or look into it. That's a common position and also understandable.

But when put on the spot, instead of annoying he'd rather not know, and would rather enjoy the illusion he's done nothing wrong, he's also started he doesn't know if he'd protect his own children from someone who presented that way... Which is pretty bad and to thee mother of those children with a sa background would be heinous.

I think you had his back to the wall because you were exposing his inconsistent and illogical position, so he had no way to climb down from his position without losing face and he reacted immaturely.

The fact you wanted to get to the bottom of his attitude is understandable, I agree with you and would have felt the same. But many a flawed human would have reacted similarly as he did.
It is not admirable, it is crap and childish. He also should have the intelligence to connect the topic to your own background and deal with it now sensitively.

So, it's rubbish. Could you have dropped the subject for the sake of the peace? Yes, you could have done that. That would have saved him from being an arse... It's still on him though.

I think this is a very good, fair and balanced post. Thank you.

I feel as though he completely failed to acknowledge why I'd find some of what he was saying hurtful and doubled down even after I reminded him, not that I should have needed to.

He could have simply said that there's no way of knowing for sure whether MJ was guilty or not and that would be true. I wouldn't have argued against that.

OP posts:
Nowherenew · 07/12/2023 16:27

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:22

Why don't you borrow one of ButterCups spades 😂

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OP you had an argument with your DP because he didn’t agree with you.

You then slagged him off and insulted him, because he didn’t agree with you.

You then started a thread just because you can’t cope with being wrong.

You then tried attacking/trying to insult posters who don’t agree with you, because you can’t cope with being wrong.

Perhaps you should use this thread to reflect on your behaviour and how you can change it in the future.

You don’t know MJ.
All you know was that he was found not guilty.
You don’t know more than anyone else does.

ButterCupPie · 07/12/2023 16:28

Nowherenew · 07/12/2023 16:22

It sounds like OP doesn’t like being wrong.

Arguing with her DP didn’t work, so she’s hoping MNers will agree with her and prove her right.

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But OP wasn't wrong. Her partner was.

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:29

Nowherenew · 07/12/2023 16:27

OP you had an argument with your DP because he didn’t agree with you.

You then slagged him off and insulted him, because he didn’t agree with you.

You then started a thread just because you can’t cope with being wrong.

You then tried attacking/trying to insult posters who don’t agree with you, because you can’t cope with being wrong.

Perhaps you should use this thread to reflect on your behaviour and how you can change it in the future.

You don’t know MJ.
All you know was that he was found not guilty.
You don’t know more than anyone else does.

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ODFO with your blatant gaslighting, I'm responding to posters who are being rude to me.

OP posts:
Moveoverdarlin · 07/12/2023 16:29

Would I leave my children with Michael Jackson? No. Will I continue to listen to his music? Yes. Yes. Yes.

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:31

Those who can't be bothered to RTFT (not that I blame you) please instead just read the first few of my own posts. This isn't all about MJ. There's multiple layers to it.

OP posts:
Hoovermehenry · 07/12/2023 16:33

Your DP is a fuckwit. MJ was a pedophile protected because of his wealth and fame.
I would no more listen to his music now than I would watch a re-run of Jim’ll Fix it.

Too many mean are apologists for other men who abuse and rape, sick to death of it. He was an ‘artist’ is right up there with ‘he’s a good bloke/mate’ when it comes to abusers.
Just because someone is a laugh down the pub or lent you some money doesn’t mean he doesn’t also beat his wife up.

Nowherenew · 07/12/2023 16:34

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:29

ODFO with your blatant gaslighting, I'm responding to posters who are being rude to me.

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Gaslighting 🤣🤣

I’m surprised you haven’t accused your DP of that.

MJ was found not guilty.
You don’t know him and cannot say with any confidence that he is guilty.
Instead of arguing with your DP, you could have just agreed to disagree.

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:35

Nowherenew · 07/12/2023 16:34

Gaslighting 🤣🤣

I’m surprised you haven’t accused your DP of that.

MJ was found not guilty.
You don’t know him and cannot say with any confidence that he is guilty.
Instead of arguing with your DP, you could have just agreed to disagree.

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Please, go away. This is the last of your posts I'm going to bother reading or responding to.

OP posts:
Universalsnail · 07/12/2023 16:36

I think you were being unreasonable to get into a conversation about this considering your history. It was bound to be a triggering conversation that was going to go very sour as soon as your husband said he disagrees. The conversation should have swiftly ended there. It's too an emotive subject.

Universalsnail · 07/12/2023 16:37

Although for the record I think MJ did abuse those children.

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:38

Those of you being so hard on me are vile. It's abundantly clear I'm upset and the argument has brought up past trauma. Why would you, knowing that, continue to have a go at me? You don't know what people are dealing with from behind a screen. Pathetic bullying behaviour.

OP posts:
Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:41

Universalsnail · 07/12/2023 16:36

I think you were being unreasonable to get into a conversation about this considering your history. It was bound to be a triggering conversation that was going to go very sour as soon as your husband said he disagrees. The conversation should have swiftly ended there. It's too an emotive subject.

I agree, I shouldn't have ever gone there.

I never intended for it to turn into a debate or argument but I obviously can't talk objectively about CSA without getting upset.

I've had to come and sit in the bedroom so my DS doesn't see me crying. I thought I had dealt with all of this. Lesson learned.

OP posts:
zingally · 07/12/2023 16:43

YABU to escalate an issue that you knew you and your DP disagree on.

Like you, I watched the Leaving Neverland doc, and fail to see how ANYONE could finish watching it and NOT believe the boys (now men). But I also know that a lot of people just won't be reasoned with on the topic of MJ.

My mum likes to do similar with stories about transgender people. We have wildly different POVs, and now, whenever she brings it up, I just grey rock her. "I'm not interested in discussing this with you." Repeated however many times it takes until she gets bored and shuts up.

I suggest you take a similar strategy moving forwards.

Cosywintertime · 07/12/2023 16:43

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:38

Those of you being so hard on me are vile. It's abundantly clear I'm upset and the argument has brought up past trauma. Why would you, knowing that, continue to have a go at me? You don't know what people are dealing with from behind a screen. Pathetic bullying behaviour.

To be polite but honest, no one has been as hard on you as you have your own husband. And I’m really sorry for what you’ve gone through, maybe more counselling would be in order to help you cope.💐

ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea · 07/12/2023 16:44

For what it's worth as I think it's relevant there is history of him choosing to see the good in people that he shouldn't. His eldest had social services involvement because DP and his ex were spending time with, and allowing DSD to spend time with, a convicted paedophile as they thought it was all just 'malicious rumours'

That's quite a massive drip feed there @PLP432 in terms of your DP's ability to safeguard his children . It makes the subsequent discussion around Michael Jackson almost irrelevant. It may well be that he always tries to see the good in people, innocent until proven guilty etc - but continuing to listen to music by a dodgy singer and failing to safeguard your own child are completely different things .

Universalsnail · 07/12/2023 16:45

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:41

I agree, I shouldn't have ever gone there.

I never intended for it to turn into a debate or argument but I obviously can't talk objectively about CSA without getting upset.

I've had to come and sit in the bedroom so my DS doesn't see me crying. I thought I had dealt with all of this. Lesson learned.

Show quote history

I understand. I have some trigger topics I just can't engage a debate in with my partner as they have historically always just caused a huge argument because his opinion just hits a real inner nerve because of my trauma. I think this is one of those topics for you and it's not worth discussing

Original poster
PLP432 · 07/12/2023 16:46

zingally · 07/12/2023 16:43

YABU to escalate an issue that you knew you and your DP disagree on.

Like you, I watched the Leaving Neverland doc, and fail to see how ANYONE could finish watching it and NOT believe the boys (now men). But I also know that a lot of people just won't be reasoned with on the topic of MJ.

My mum likes to do similar with stories about transgender people. We have wildly different POVs, and now, whenever she brings it up, I just grey rock her. "I'm not interested in discussing this with you." Repeated however many times it takes until she gets bored and shuts up.

I suggest you take a similar strategy moving forwards.

We have never discussed Michael Jackson before, if we had I'm sure it would have gone the same way then I'd have known not to bother raising that topic with him again.

OP posts:
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