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Original poster

Blazing row about Michael Jackson

644 replies

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 12:44

I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it but hear me out.

I was in a shop with DP last night and they were playing Michael Jackson music. I commented that I don't like hearing his music as I can't get past everything he did. Yes, I know he wasn't convicted but he openly admitted to sleeping in bed with random children, showering together and whatever else.

DP said "we have different opinions on that, he's a really good artist" to which I replied something about Rolph Harris being a good artist and Jimmy Saville being a good fund raiser.

DP then goes on to say he doesn't think MJ did anything untoward with the children and he thinks it's all innocent and because he had a "childlike mind" due to not having a proper childhood.

I said that was no excuse and plenty of people have bad or unusual childhoods and don't groom children.

He was getting defensive and talking about how he was found not guilty in court, to which I pointed out how few rape and sexual abuse cases even make it to court let alone conviction.

I asked whether he'd listened to anything the men on Leaving Neverland said before he formed his opinion that MJ wasn't guilty of anything. He said no, and refused to look it up.

It descended into a row and I was very hurt by some of the things he said, as I have a history of child sexual abuse and rape - which he knows all about.

I asked him whether he would have gladly left our DS in the company of someone like MJ unsupervised and he took a while to answer before saying "I don't know"

I said how that concerned me from a safeguarding perspective to which he took huge offence, started shouting and told me to return all of the presents i'd bought him as he doesnt want them anymore, the immature dickhead.

Now we're not talking.

Was I being unreasonable here?

OP posts:
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21
Mirabai · 15/12/2023 20:28

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:11

You’re absolutely right.

But it doesn’t mean he didn’t abuse them.

I know there is a theory he groomed the parents too but honestly I think Robson and Safechuck’s parents were greedy grabby fame hunters, and probably shirked off any inkling they had about their son’s safety because “Oh but look at the amazing lives we now have”. Especially Joy Robson who moved her children to a different continent to pursue Jackson and his contacts. I found Stephanie Safechuck’s to be remorseful and very self reflective in LN but honestly Joy Robson can FTFO - very ‘poor me how was I to know’ and speaking so warmly about the man who abused her son. I reckon if you slipped that woman some truth serum she’d say “Yeah he abused Wade but it was worth it for the life and career we all got out of it”.

Show quote history

But the evidence of grooming is visible on this thread isn’t it? The fans are totally in thrall, he can do no wrong. Everyone else must be lying. The boys’ parents were the same. No doubt Safechuck & Robson parents were thrilled to be around a global star and all the benefits that may come with that, but I don’t think any of them saw through MJ at the time. Savile groomed the nation, so did MJ. The exception was Jordy’s father.

Mirabai · 15/12/2023 20:30

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:25

I saw this. That’s basically their ‘smoking gun’. However all they had was evidence of the planning application. That’s it. That was their mountain of defence. They also didn’t address that the memories of CSA victims are very infalliable when it comes to dates and times - it’s often why historical accusations are difficult to bring to trial. If you have the brain of a traumatised child, you can’t piece the jigsaw together as well as other people can. And the law requires a more factual base than that.

That Jackson family funded piece of tosh is as embarrasing and prove nothing, except that his loved ones are deluded sacks of shit

Show quote history

As I pointed out upthread the film was funded ultimately by Sony who had spent quarter of a billion MJ’s catalogue.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:33

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 02:33

How can you say they have not once changed their story?! They are on version 12 right now. Their legal filings and leaving neverland are TWO completely different stories that were being told at the exact same time for a start.

There are also not 22 accusers, there are 5 ever out of the thousands upon thousand of kids he had contact with. I don't know where you're getting all this rubbish from but the primary source legal documents are all available. I suggest you read them instead of parroting whatever you saw in the National Enquirer.

Actually there’s 8 accusers. How many do you need to believe someone is a pedophile? Genuine question.

And also you clearly don’t understand how film making works. There are many drafts (or versions as you call it) before the Final Cut. The first draft being very long (I believe LN was nearly a six hour documentary) and they have to cut it down. HTH

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:35

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 02:47

How can I say they have changed their story? It’s called counting mate. Read their depositions, listen to their interviews, look at their own filings, watch leaving neverland. THIS is the exact reason why they keepmlosing in court. The judge even said “no rational fact finder could ever believe these varying versions of events’. In leaving neverland they contradict each other AND their parents then contradict the pair of them.

There are also not 22 payoffs and we know this because the Forensic Accountants brought in by the prosecution found nothing of the sort apart from a settlement of a civil suit in 199 and when he was sued for going against various contracts for performances he didn't do. His attorney hasn’t admitted anything of the sort. If he has, provide proof yourself.

They’ve lost on court due to the statute of limitations.

A decision has now been overturned.

I hope they bleed his estate dry.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:36

SoreAndTired1 · 10/12/2023 03:11

You say: "Read their depositions, listen to their interviews, look at their own filings, watch leaving neverland." But said there were 12. If they had changed their story, you would provide proof, not say 'look it up yourself'. You are writing things and just expecting us to believe them. I've read the depositions, court transcripts, interviews etc. And apart from initially denying abuse, they have not once changed their story, nor do they 'contradict each other' in LN. You can't just state a load of stuff and expect us to believe it without providing any proof. You made those claims. Now back them up please.

Show quote history

Bravo @SoreAndTired1

I have also followed this for the best part of a decade and there are no contradictions. The Jackson camp are just very good at putting out WordPress sites full of bogus information so that the lowest common denominators can feast on it

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:39

scorpiogirly · 10/12/2023 10:43

I've had the same argument with my daughter's dad, although the other way around. He thinks he's guilty and I do not, I'm a fan so often plat MJ in the house. My problem is that although he believes he is guilty, he doesn't mind having his music on, that's what I find odd.

Re those two in the Neverland documentary, I don't believe a word ans a lot of it was proven to be lies. There is a video on YouTube where the claims were debunked.

If it was Dave from Asda who had nunerous CSA allegations, shared a bed with strange little boys and had a revolving door of little boy friends (who he dumped once they got to teen age) would you say his accusers were liars?

Honestly I worry about the national average IQ when I read threads like this.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:42

JazzyGsMummy · 10/12/2023 14:01

You don't have to wait to long.
Can you explain lifelong friends of Michael, macaulay culkin, Brett Barnes, the Cascios kids, Brandon Adams and more to the point james and wade they have all said they were still in touch beyond puberty (James filmed a video at the property and Wade asked to have his wedding at neverland, filmed some things with his wife there and attended his funeral plus he praised him stating he was a massive infuence) plus there were also girls as well. no one was dumped at puberty unless there was a reason ie. Gavin arvizo & family who were constantly on the take so Michael distanced himself.

Edited

How about you educate yourself on the affects on grooming before making ignorant comments.

A man who lives near me who was once a boys school headteacher was invited to the wedding of the man he sexually abused. Grooming has far reaching effects, and groomers know this. That former head teacher is now in prison and his wife is still by his side. Doesn’t surprise me. Clearly some people are thick as fuck and deluded and always will be

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:43

Raj696959 · 10/12/2023 14:18

Yes they have changed their stories. Going from saying they weren't abused to claiming they were abused is changing their story. What they claim in leaving neverland is different to what they claim in their lawsuits. Wade's 2016 deposition is different to what he says in leaving neverland. They changed their stories multiple times

Do you understand why they denied abuse for so long?

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:44

JazzyGsMummy · 10/12/2023 14:19

Debunked by all the authors

Well he definitely didn’t abuse little boys then Hmm he just hAd nO chILdhOod

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:44

Willb2024 · 10/12/2023 15:27

Why do think? They were using it in the hope of getting a payout from the civil courts (they haven’t as of yet but are still trying). Just clarifying that.

Edited

And why shouldn’t they?

ladygindiva · 15/12/2023 20:46

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:01

I’m also horrified at the vile people on here who are saying OP is projecting her abuse onto her views about MJ. Anyone with half a brain can see he’s a nonce. Have a word with yourselves.

I agree 100%

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:49

Martinii · 10/12/2023 17:54

I agree.

As a surviver of sexual child abuse myself, no amount of money could pay me off if my child said someone had abused them, unlike the family of the boy who made the accusation in 1993. I'd want justice, not money, and there's no way as a parent I could be paid off.

Show quote history

I 100% understand why Jordy Chandler’s family took the money. And I’ll tell you why.

Nothing will change the fact Jordy was sexually abused. That trauma cannot be undone, only managed. The enormous outpouring of hate towards the Chandler family following the accusation, including death threats, must have been horrific. Imagine if they’d gone to trial with Jackson’s terrifying lawyers being awful to an abused boy - let’s face it even if Jackson DID get found guilty he would have still been rev-erred and the Jordan’s harassed for the rest of their lives. Money could afford them to build a new life they clearly needed desperately (and that’s seemingly what they did as they are now untraceable).

Look at Gavin Arvino who got so close to justice only for it to be ripped away. He is also untraceable after apparently changing his identity. He’d already suffered enough with cancer. I completely get why the Chandler’s took the only hope of justice they were ever gonna get.

Id rather look at it as “If someone made a false accusation of the most horrific crime known to man against me, I’d never pay them off I’d fight it all the way to court and prove my innocence”.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:52

Michaeljosephl · 11/12/2023 08:23

Well u seem to like you edited to suit agenda

The full clips is available and was used in the 2005 trial which he was exonorated on

Which clearly stated "he sleep on the floor", and u have the bed. I always give the guests the bed. Sleep in it, its yours.

He wasn’t exonerated at all

Sorry your hero is a nonce it open your eyes FFS

NotMYChild · 15/12/2023 20:54

He needs to watch the Netflix doc. The maid talked about finding items in the bedrooms which were not innocent. I grew up adoring MJ, fav song was Billy Jean. Now it turns my stomach and I despise how he is still on bbc radio song lists. It seems like a different set of rules for Saville etc, agree OP.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:55

Tourniquet81 · 12/12/2023 00:23

That wasn’t Jordan that was his father Evan. He wanted to be allowed to record an album called EvanStory in reply to Michael’s album HIStory and wanted to sue for $60m. In fact, Jordan had very little to do with any of it. He maintained in later years nothing ever happened and it was his father after money and his mother was only worried about losing custody of him. His father tried to kill him with a dumb-bell bar over a row over the money and Jordan later ‘divorced’ his parents over the whole thing.

I would think be surprised if he came out one day and debunked the whole story.

Source?

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:56

Firefly1987 · 12/12/2023 02:09

@AllWeWantToDo well he sure kept Macaulay Culkin around for a long time despite apparently having no "use" for him. Personally (and I know I'll get called naive and worse here) I think he wanted to be a father figure to these kids-some of them didn't have the best parents and he wanted to make sure they didn't miss out like he did growing up without a childhood. I also think he was desperate to be a father and that's why he ended up having them by himself in the end.

It’s not possible for a man to have children by himself. FYI

Mirabai · 15/12/2023 20:57

I said upthread that compensation was a better outcome than pitting a 13 year old against a global star in a CSA trial. I think it’s the outcome a responsible parents would choose over the global circus of a trial.

Some of the money has possibly been spent on going underground - he may have changed his identity. There’s reportedly only 1 photo of him in the last 20 years. Finding Neverland’s producers tried to find him and failed - which is fair enough - he doesn’t want to be found.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:57

Tourniquet81 · 15/12/2023 17:54

That’s exactly my point. It wasn’t sleep overs with ‘boys’. We know this because of the hundreds of people who have stayed speaking out both in court, to Police and in interviews. Turns out rather than spooning in his bed alone like a couple, there were always plenty of people there in his 2000sq ft 2 story ‘bedroom’. Men, woman, boys, girls, family, friends and even staff. This whole sleeping with boys thing was only invented during the trial and parroted by the media ever since. When the stories fell apart with their own witnesses the jury didn’t buy their narrative.

So why would this “be enough for you” yet the actual allegations of abuse involving kidnappings in hot air balloons, molestation in multiple building (not even his bedroom) 6 years before they were built, at events we now know he didn’t attend, in continents we now know he hadn’t travelled to and within time lines requiring a De-Lorian crumbling with the most basic of fact checking make you not so much as bat an eye lid?

So why did he continue to share his bed with boys after numerous allegations against him?

Jackson was also NEVER ‘cancelled’

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 21:00

Mirabai · 15/12/2023 18:20

People have been asked to come forward.

Not as part of an official public investigation.

It’s clear at this point @Tourniquet81 is completely round the twist so there’s no point arguing further.

And let’s face it - who the hell would come forward and stand against the Jackson sycophants and litigious family ? Robson and Safechuck’s families have all had death threats. These victims have been through enough. I don’t blame them for not coming forward. Most victims dont

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 21:01

Tourniquet81 · 15/12/2023 18:26

Indeed. Being able to read, hear what is said and just knowing things is ‘being round the twist”. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Yet you’re the one that can’t refute a single point of any of it with factual primary source evidence. You just parrot media stories 😂 Funny how everybody knows the media always talks undiluted cobblers….yet when it comes to Jackson, you think they’re 100% accurate 😂😂 That’s some mental gymnastics right there.

Having an opinion is fine but when all available facts and evidence prove your opinion to be completely and utterly wring and unfounded and then you insist on sticking to that opinion anyway then it is no longer an exchange on any intellectual level.

A bit rich from someone who hasn’t posted a single source.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 21:02

Whingebob · 15/12/2023 18:49

Surely it’s perfectly healthy to have safeguarding concerns about someone who doesn’t believe a man (and a very obvious pedophile) can’t be a pedophile because, essentially, he’s good at his job?

Safeguarding concentration over Michael Jackson is as ridiculous as it gets. Maybe op should divorce her DH if she genuinely worries? Or maybe she can just accept that he had a different opinion (which has now changed, as opinions do)?

Yes because it’s her DH’s inability to assess risk - fuck me I’d be terrified if I was married to a pedophile apologist

Firefly1987 · 15/12/2023 21:04

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 20:14

Here’s a revelation : Jackson could do what the man down the road would do and sayNo you can’t be my friend and sleep in my bed that’s weird”.

But he didnt

Show quote history

You do realise abuse could take place absolutely anywhere and it was not required that they needed to be in a bed to do that? Supposedly it took place more often in non-existent train stations than beds so there's that...Do you also realise there are more things you can do in bed other than have sex?

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 21:04

Tourniquet81 · 15/12/2023 19:15

Yeah, family and friends like Culkin and Barnes who defend him to this day. Not some random kid he’s invited over like you need it to be 😂😂

Kit Culkin, Karen Faye and Joy Robson all state how that’s what they would do. Everybody pile on the huge bed and watch movies and play video games til they fell asleep. The size of his bedroom matters because you’re all so hooked on the term ‘bedroom’. It’s bigger than most houses and would be where people hung out when not on the ranch. In my house it’s the kitchen but if I had a room that was 2000sq ft it would be there.

The actual allegations being ignored and this being the focus proves nobody believes them.

I believe Culkin and Barnes when they say they were not harmed by Jackson.

But here’s a revelation - not all pedophiles abuse all the children they come into contact with.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 21:06

VanityDiesHard · 15/12/2023 19:31

Me too. I didn't believe them whatsoever. I also thought it was very convenient that they said all of this after he was dead. Probably after a fat payout from his estate.

Show quote history

Why don’t you believe them?

If they were accusing someone who worked in a butchers what would you say?

Theyve never had a payout from his estate, but frankly they should and I hope they do

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 21:07

Tourniquet81 · 15/12/2023 19:31

Jackson initially had one person come forward

Wrong.

Allegations dated back way before Jordy Chandler

Actually if we are to believe the allegations, Robson would be the first. George never made a complaint he just sold stories to the media. Hardly worth even listening to.

he paid money to drop the case due to pressure from his music company

Which is not the actions of an innocent man.

Actually the legal documentation shows he was denied 6 separate times to have the criminal trial for his freedom ahead of the civil suit for his money. The solution was to have a Stay Motion or a Protection Order on Civil Discovery but he was denied them also which was a breach of his constitutional rights and helped lead to a change in the law. Loss of income is neither here nor there.

(he couldn't tour during the legal proceedings

Can you point to the legislation on this please?

Also his History tour didn’t start til ‘96 - tours and schedules are organised years in advance. There is nothing to say this was planned for 1995.

Irrelevant. This was during the Dangerous Tour in 1993 which he was bang in the middle of.

Then there were the guys from leaving neverland, who have both proven to be incredibly unreliable

How so?

12 versions thus far, 60+ proven lies in the film itself and more worryingly the fact that it told the complete polar opposite version of events to their own legal filings, complaints, declarations and depositions that were running AT THE EXACT SAME TIME.

It's also worth mentioning that the FBI searched his house top to bottom and found nothing

Wrong. They found books with naked pictures of boys in

They found 2 art books that are actually in The Library of Congress. The JUDGE and the PROSECUTION both released statements confirming no child porn or erotica of any sort were found in any of the raids as it was yet another story going round the media at the time and could have endangered the trial. There were 3 surprise raids when he wasn’t even in the country and you’re telling me an art book that was confiscated in 93 and never replaced with anything was all this ‘master criminal’ ever needed….. right

They also took The Gynoids - I wonder why you’re not mentioning that 🤔😂

Edited

No idea what a ‘gynoid’ is but your responses are total tosh for reasons already stated.

Open your eyes! How can you defend such an obvious nonce.