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Original poster

Blazing row about Michael Jackson

644 replies

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 12:44

I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it but hear me out.

I was in a shop with DP last night and they were playing Michael Jackson music. I commented that I don't like hearing his music as I can't get past everything he did. Yes, I know he wasn't convicted but he openly admitted to sleeping in bed with random children, showering together and whatever else.

DP said "we have different opinions on that, he's a really good artist" to which I replied something about Rolph Harris being a good artist and Jimmy Saville being a good fund raiser.

DP then goes on to say he doesn't think MJ did anything untoward with the children and he thinks it's all innocent and because he had a "childlike mind" due to not having a proper childhood.

I said that was no excuse and plenty of people have bad or unusual childhoods and don't groom children.

He was getting defensive and talking about how he was found not guilty in court, to which I pointed out how few rape and sexual abuse cases even make it to court let alone conviction.

I asked whether he'd listened to anything the men on Leaving Neverland said before he formed his opinion that MJ wasn't guilty of anything. He said no, and refused to look it up.

It descended into a row and I was very hurt by some of the things he said, as I have a history of child sexual abuse and rape - which he knows all about.

I asked him whether he would have gladly left our DS in the company of someone like MJ unsupervised and he took a while to answer before saying "I don't know"

I said how that concerned me from a safeguarding perspective to which he took huge offence, started shouting and told me to return all of the presents i'd bought him as he doesnt want them anymore, the immature dickhead.

Now we're not talking.

Was I being unreasonable here?

OP posts:
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Theoriginalmrscillianmurphy · 10/12/2023 09:45

I can't believe you've had a blazing row with your boyfriend over a dead man that neither of you have met.

Who could be arsed with that.

Original poster
PLP432 · 10/12/2023 10:07

I just think it's a preposterous, laughable excuse the idea that Jackson had to sleep with young boys because he missed out on his own childhood

I couldn't agree more, it's as though they think bed sharing is some essential part of childhood. It isn't.

My DC have never shared a bed with their siblings IE actual children because why would they?

I never shared a bed with any friends or relatives when I was a child.

Why is bed sharing such an intrinsic part of the childhood he's supposedly tried to recreate in adulthood?

Edited to add: I'd just like to remind people of the footage shot by Martin Bashir where Jackson is sitting down holding hands and being embraced by one of his accusers. The boy is telling the interviewer how MJ was trying to convince him to sleep in his bed and the boy was saying nah it's OK, to which he said MJ replied "if you loved me you would"

MJ's face when the boy said that. That was never meant to be repeated as it clearly shows coercion.

He then quickly interjected "I slept on the floor"

But he didn't did he? Because he has already admitted dozens of times to sleeping in the bed with the boys.

I need to find this clip.

OP posts:
Original poster
PLP432 · 10/12/2023 10:08

Theoriginalmrscillianmurphy · 10/12/2023 09:45

I can't believe you've had a blazing row with your boyfriend over a dead man that neither of you have met.

Who could be arsed with that.

If you can't see that it goes beyond a dead man who we didn't know then I can't be arsed to explain myself again.

OP posts:
Original poster
PLP432 · 10/12/2023 10:17

Here we go, found it, but it cuts out just before MJ interjected. "If you loved me you'd sleep in the bed"

The whole segment is in the Living with Michael jackson documentary anyway.

OP posts:
Lambiriyani · 10/12/2023 10:23

At least OJ was found liable in the civil court, making him "responsible" for their deaths.

DyslexicPoster · 10/12/2023 10:31

I don't think yabu. I'd not trust my kids with MJ either. He did bad things but I'm not clear he had predatory motives. But from safeguarding law in the UK its very clearly wrong.

Unfortunately a lot of men can not apologise or show any weakness so maybe dh is a immature twat and in that camp.

What unforgivable is knowing your history and continuing to argue with to win and point score.

If your raped in the UK, unless its caught on the street with cctv and there's dna and you never met then before in your life then maybe there's a weak chance you get a conviction. I know as best friend had strong evidence, three years to court date and only got gbh charges. Once you see it first hand, only then do you get it.

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 10:34

With respect you clearly haven’t otherwise you wouldn’t be saying any of this. The whole charade is a matter of legal record due to the decade or so that this has been going on.
I’m not sure why on a site like this you are pushing such a narrative about the guy but repeating stories you have heard in the media and expecting me to have a decades worth of legal material in my possession is rather a strange response which is why I have said to go read the primary sources as it is all there.

Original poster
PLP432 · 10/12/2023 10:38

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 10:34

With respect you clearly haven’t otherwise you wouldn’t be saying any of this. The whole charade is a matter of legal record due to the decade or so that this has been going on.
I’m not sure why on a site like this you are pushing such a narrative about the guy but repeating stories you have heard in the media and expecting me to have a decades worth of legal material in my possession is rather a strange response which is why I have said to go read the primary sources as it is all there.

I clearly haven't what? Can you elaborate?

OP posts:
scorpiogirly · 10/12/2023 10:43

I've had the same argument with my daughter's dad, although the other way around. He thinks he's guilty and I do not, I'm a fan so often plat MJ in the house. My problem is that although he believes he is guilty, he doesn't mind having his music on, that's what I find odd.

Re those two in the Neverland documentary, I don't believe a word ans a lot of it was proven to be lies. There is a video on YouTube where the claims were debunked.

Mirabai · 10/12/2023 10:47

Willb2024 · 10/12/2023 09:29

Having watched Leaving Neverland, I don’t believe them. It’s a pro-pedo fantasy film and they are just after money

So why didn’t they get paid for taking part?

Gallowayan · 10/12/2023 10:51

Unless you really do have Safeguarding concerns that particular comment is just goady. It seems more likley that you set a trap for him and he stupidly fell into it because he was to stubborn to concede your point.

Sounds as though this is more about your egos and you both doubling down on your views. I'm sure your husband would not really put your child in the care of a creepy celeb. in the post Savile climate.

Mirabai · 10/12/2023 10:54

I just think it's a preposterous, laughable excuse the idea that Jackson had to sleep with young boys because he missed out on his own childhood

I couldn't agree more, it's as though they think bed sharing is some essential part of childhood. It isn't.

Agreed. The whole charade of the little boy who never grew up was simply a ruse to get access to boys to abuse. He was a paedophile. He groomed the boys, their families and some of the world. Some like @Tourniquet81 are still in thrall. Everyone else has grown up.

jellyfish2121 · 10/12/2023 11:26

I also believe MJ was innocent & yes I've watched the documentaries. No one knows 100% but we are entitled to our opinions.

For those having trouble when his music is played, it's possible to seperate the art from the artist. Hundreds of other people were part of it's production, besides MJ.

People still love & watch The COSBY show.

Raj696959 · 10/12/2023 12:59

Yes you are being unreasonable. He was never convicted and he never claimed to shower with kids. His ex maid claimed that and admitted in court that she was paid to lie. He was exonerated in life and even in death his accusers are proven liars. Watch square one and chase the truth.
Listen to interviews by people who knew him and weren't after money. Eg mac culkin and bret Barnes. Even his 2 current accusers denied being abused for 20 years and only changed their stories when they hit financial trouble. The court documents and fbi files are free to view online

Original poster
PLP432 · 10/12/2023 13:36

Listen to interviews by people who knew him and weren't after money. Eg mac culkin

Wade Robson was defending him as strongly as Macauley Culkin was once upon a time. It wasn't until adulthood and having his own child that he started to see the abuse for what it was and even then, he still felt some misguided loyalty to him.

Macauley was a very troubled young man who turned to drugs. Who knows what he saw and went through.

That aside, a PP raised a good point about how Macauley Culkin had his own fame and star power, so what better a person to have on side. It's possible for MJ to have been abusing the other boys whilst not abusing MC.

OP posts:
StopStartStop · 10/12/2023 13:41

I don't know what MJ did or didn't do with children. It looked as dodgy as fuck. But that is distinct from the music. Some of that was very good.

JazzyGsMummy · 10/12/2023 14:01

You don't have to wait to long.
Can you explain lifelong friends of Michael, macaulay culkin, Brett Barnes, the Cascios kids, Brandon Adams and more to the point james and wade they have all said they were still in touch beyond puberty (James filmed a video at the property and Wade asked to have his wedding at neverland, filmed some things with his wife there and attended his funeral plus he praised him stating he was a massive infuence) plus there were also girls as well. no one was dumped at puberty unless there was a reason ie. Gavin arvizo & family who were constantly on the take so Michael distanced himself.

Raj696959 · 10/12/2023 14:18

Yes they have changed their stories. Going from saying they weren't abused to claiming they were abused is changing their story. What they claim in leaving neverland is different to what they claim in their lawsuits. Wade's 2016 deposition is different to what he says in leaving neverland. They changed their stories multiple times

JazzyGsMummy · 10/12/2023 14:19

Debunked by all the authors

Blazing row about Michael Jackson
Raj696959 · 10/12/2023 14:20

False. The train station wasn't there. The building permits video and photo evidence shows there was no train station there in the 1980's. Construction began in 1993 and completed in 1994.

JazzyGsMummy · 10/12/2023 14:20

Debunked by all 3 authors

Mirabai · 10/12/2023 15:12

Raj696959 · 10/12/2023 14:18

Yes they have changed their stories. Going from saying they weren't abused to claiming they were abused is changing their story. What they claim in leaving neverland is different to what they claim in their lawsuits. Wade's 2016 deposition is different to what he says in leaving neverland. They changed their stories multiple times

Pretty fucking disgraceful comment given the number of people who don’t realise or acknowledge they were abused until later in life. Some women turn to these very forums to discuss precisely this.

Willb2024 · 10/12/2023 15:27

Why do think? They were using it in the hope of getting a payout from the civil courts (they haven’t as of yet but are still trying). Just clarifying that.

Original poster
PLP432 · 10/12/2023 15:38

Mirabai · 10/12/2023 15:12

Pretty fucking disgraceful comment given the number of people who don’t realise or acknowledge they were abused until later in life. Some women turn to these very forums to discuss precisely this.

Show quote history

Yep, exactly this.

Lots of people don't accept what happened to them as abuse until well into adulthood or when they have children of their own. That aside, I thought it was common knowledge that victims will often cover for their abuser out of fear, love or some warped sense of obligation.

The same can also be said for cases of domestic abuse.

OP posts:
Whingebob · 10/12/2023 15:43

Pp is wrong that victims of abuse don't pretend their not being abused for a while number of reasons. Shame, embarrassment, not understand it's abuse, not wanting to get someone in trouble, thinking it's not a big deal

But I think her point is that the time between these changes wasnt significant

What could happen 2016 and 2019 to have stories change so drastically? It's not like a 13 year old vs 16 year old

I think the point is they were adults at both points

It's important to keep an open mind to ally eh facts (for and against) and understand that victims' behaviours. I can't speak for pp though just guessing.

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