Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Blazing row about Michael Jackson

644 replies

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 12:44

I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it but hear me out.

I was in a shop with DP last night and they were playing Michael Jackson music. I commented that I don't like hearing his music as I can't get past everything he did. Yes, I know he wasn't convicted but he openly admitted to sleeping in bed with random children, showering together and whatever else.

DP said "we have different opinions on that, he's a really good artist" to which I replied something about Rolph Harris being a good artist and Jimmy Saville being a good fund raiser.

DP then goes on to say he doesn't think MJ did anything untoward with the children and he thinks it's all innocent and because he had a "childlike mind" due to not having a proper childhood.

I said that was no excuse and plenty of people have bad or unusual childhoods and don't groom children.

He was getting defensive and talking about how he was found not guilty in court, to which I pointed out how few rape and sexual abuse cases even make it to court let alone conviction.

I asked whether he'd listened to anything the men on Leaving Neverland said before he formed his opinion that MJ wasn't guilty of anything. He said no, and refused to look it up.

It descended into a row and I was very hurt by some of the things he said, as I have a history of child sexual abuse and rape - which he knows all about.

I asked him whether he would have gladly left our DS in the company of someone like MJ unsupervised and he took a while to answer before saying "I don't know"

I said how that concerned me from a safeguarding perspective to which he took huge offence, started shouting and told me to return all of the presents i'd bought him as he doesnt want them anymore, the immature dickhead.

Now we're not talking.

Was I being unreasonable here?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 01:42

False. There is ariel footage from various media outlets at the time, footage from Liz Taylor's wedding, footage from the ranch itself and photos that show it didn't exist. The contractor that built it confirmed it wasn't there and the guy responsible for designing and helping create Neverland also said in his book long before this stuff was ever created when the rides and buildings were created.
In the TV show they went to great lengths to explain exactly when the abuse happened and their evidence to it being so. It was then found that the building didn't exist for 6 more years, not 2. At that time Jackson was living two and a half thousand miles away in New York with Lisa-Marie Presley recording an album and then touring. By the time they would have been able to continue with this abuse the bloke would have been about 17 and nobody can confuse being 8 with 17.

SoreAndTired1 · 10/12/2023 01:44

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 00:45

I think in the case of Jackson specifically you are wrong. There is way too much exculpatory evidence that outs the accusers as down right lying as apposed to getting dates etc wrong.
They spent soo much time going into too much checkable detail in the likes of leaving neverland telling us that is exactly what happened and when and was why we must believe them.
All they do is change their story every time they're rejected for a payday which isn't what happens in the real world. 11 times now!
We didn't have this with Weinstein, R Kelly, Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, Karl Logan, Ian Watkins, Rolf Harris or Bill Cosby. And also there wasn't the concern of just so happening to be hit with $25m fines and job rejection 6 days before abuse was 'remembered' by the accusers. Too much sides with Jacko and against the accusers in this one.

They have not once changed their story. The details they gave were checkable and all checked out. 22 other accusers - this is Weinstein and Cosby all over again. Far too much evidence points to Jackson's guilt, with bystanders and witnesses on trains and a plane giving testimony, naked photos of one of the boys found at Neverland, boys undies found, and a BoyLove book found as well. The evidence against him is absolutely overwhelming.

SoreAndTired1 · 10/12/2023 01:46

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 01:42

False. There is ariel footage from various media outlets at the time, footage from Liz Taylor's wedding, footage from the ranch itself and photos that show it didn't exist. The contractor that built it confirmed it wasn't there and the guy responsible for designing and helping create Neverland also said in his book long before this stuff was ever created when the rides and buildings were created.
In the TV show they went to great lengths to explain exactly when the abuse happened and their evidence to it being so. It was then found that the building didn't exist for 6 more years, not 2. At that time Jackson was living two and a half thousand miles away in New York with Lisa-Marie Presley recording an album and then touring. By the time they would have been able to continue with this abuse the bloke would have been about 17 and nobody can confuse being 8 with 17.

Absolutely wrong! There were two stations and the building plans showed the modifications. The specific station was in a tv advertisement, for goodness sake. 'Square One' lied.

HeraSyndulla · 10/12/2023 01:57

…………… escalating it to telling your partner you had a safeguarding concern about him was... whew. Unnecessarily offensive, I'll say. I am not surprised he lost his cool at that.

I’d agree with that.

merrymelodies · 10/12/2023 02:24

I love his music, but not the man himself. I haven't seen the documentary but I grew up with his music, when he was still a child himself, as was I, and there was always something off about him.

merrymelodies · 10/12/2023 02:30

ComtesseDeSpair · 07/12/2023 13:18

History is full of artists, musicians, writers and inventors who didn’t behave wonderfully. We’d have very little left to appreciate if we expected all their material to be removed from the public sphere. Most people are capable of separating the creator and their behaviour from the art.

Exactly

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 02:33

How can you say they have not once changed their story?! They are on version 12 right now. Their legal filings and leaving neverland are TWO completely different stories that were being told at the exact same time for a start.

There are also not 22 accusers, there are 5 ever out of the thousands upon thousand of kids he had contact with. I don't know where you're getting all this rubbish from but the primary source legal documents are all available. I suggest you read them instead of parroting whatever you saw in the National Enquirer.

SoreAndTired1 · 10/12/2023 02:36

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 02:33

How can you say they have not once changed their story?! They are on version 12 right now. Their legal filings and leaving neverland are TWO completely different stories that were being told at the exact same time for a start.

There are also not 22 accusers, there are 5 ever out of the thousands upon thousand of kids he had contact with. I don't know where you're getting all this rubbish from but the primary source legal documents are all available. I suggest you read them instead of parroting whatever you saw in the National Enquirer.

How can you say they have changed their story? Provide proof.

I said there were 22 payoffs that didn't reach the public sphere, that his attorneys admitted to.

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 02:36

What are you on about Square One? This is from their own testimony, filings, depositions and interviews. Their own words has tripped them up continually for over 10 years hence no pay day

SoreAndTired1 · 10/12/2023 02:36

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 02:36

What are you on about Square One? This is from their own testimony, filings, depositions and interviews. Their own words has tripped them up continually for over 10 years hence no pay day

No, they have not. Provide proof of your claims.

JazzyGsMummy · 10/12/2023 02:42

Yes people need to look deeper, both of the guys on leaving neverland seemed disingenuous. I watched it and too many things didn't quite add up.
Jimmy Savile wasn't convicted but he also never got taken to court, whereas Michael jackson did, and the jury weren't convinced of his guilt.

This is just my gut feeling and I keep thinking I'll look into it properly one day. I've seen arguments on X for both sides and from what I've seen I'm leaning towards his innocence, I'm obviously all for convicting serial rapists and pedophiles but something doesn't add up. Look what happened to Cliff Richard, his house got raided and they found nothing, I had the same gut feeling then as well. An accusation is just that, anybody can accuse someone of a crime but It does not equate to guilt.

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 02:47

How can I say they have changed their story? It’s called counting mate. Read their depositions, listen to their interviews, look at their own filings, watch leaving neverland. THIS is the exact reason why they keepmlosing in court. The judge even said “no rational fact finder could ever believe these varying versions of events’. In leaving neverland they contradict each other AND their parents then contradict the pair of them.

There are also not 22 payoffs and we know this because the Forensic Accountants brought in by the prosecution found nothing of the sort apart from a settlement of a civil suit in 199 and when he was sued for going against various contracts for performances he didn't do. His attorney hasn’t admitted anything of the sort. If he has, provide proof yourself.

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 02:50

The proof has been provided and recorded that is why it is all available to the general public and they have lost in court repeatedly. You’ll have to look up the case numbers and then cross check them to see if they have changed over the past decade or if it falls under the one.

WandaWonder · 10/12/2023 03:02

I am finding this ever increasing idea of 'I have decided what is right and if you don't agree with you I am cancelling you' weird

So people would genuinely leave if their partner does not think 100% exactly the way they do

SoreAndTired1 · 10/12/2023 03:11

Tourniquet81 · 10/12/2023 02:50

The proof has been provided and recorded that is why it is all available to the general public and they have lost in court repeatedly. You’ll have to look up the case numbers and then cross check them to see if they have changed over the past decade or if it falls under the one.

You say: "Read their depositions, listen to their interviews, look at their own filings, watch leaving neverland." But said there were 12. If they had changed their story, you would provide proof, not say 'look it up yourself'. You are writing things and just expecting us to believe them. I've read the depositions, court transcripts, interviews etc. And apart from initially denying abuse, they have not once changed their story, nor do they 'contradict each other' in LN. You can't just state a load of stuff and expect us to believe it without providing any proof. You made those claims. Now back them up please.

SoreAndTired1 · 10/12/2023 03:12

WandaWonder · 10/12/2023 03:02

I am finding this ever increasing idea of 'I have decided what is right and if you don't agree with you I am cancelling you' weird

So people would genuinely leave if their partner does not think 100% exactly the way they do

I think when it comes to disbelieving your own niece was abused (OP suggests it was later shown she was) and disbelieving any child, is a very, very serious thing and worth leaving.

autienotnaughty · 10/12/2023 05:26

It is strange. I wouldn't watch anything with Rolf Harris or Jimmy Saville in. Nor will I listen to lost prophets. However I do still listen to mj if he comes on radio. I don't know what the difference is

Landaf · 10/12/2023 06:26

There is a children's dance group local to me and whenever they do a performance the children dance to MJ songs. The children are between 4 and 11. It feels wrong to me.

teaandtoastwithmarmite · 10/12/2023 08:47

I kind of think this too but I haven't watched the documentary
DP then goes on to say he doesn't think MJ did anything untoward with the children and he thinks it's all innocent and because he had a "childlike mind" due to not having a proper childhood.

Alligator456 · 10/12/2023 08:59

https://www.nme.com/news/music/irish-journalist-recalls-time-michael-jackson-accuser-needed-rescuing-2459265

I just think it's a preposterous, laughable excuse the idea that Jackson had to sleep with young boys because he missed out on his own childhood.

Especially because these boys have come forward to say that they were abused. You might have thought he would have stopped sharing a bed with young children after the first few accusations. It's almost as if he was compelled to keep going.

Problem is the die hard fans will never believe it because they don't want to.

Irish journalist recalls time he asked Michael Jackson accuser if he needed rescuing

Sam Smyth has recalled the time he stayed in the same hotel as Michael Jackson and how he had concerns for a child that was with him.

https://www.nme.com/news/music/irish-journalist-recalls-time-michael-jackson-accuser-needed-rescuing-2459265

Willb2024 · 10/12/2023 09:29

Having watched Leaving Neverland, I don’t believe them. It’s a pro-pedo fantasy film and they are just after money